Paging Leni Riefenstahl
3 May 2006 by Sean
Video: more from the slick, brainwashing propagandists over at Battlecry.com, targeting America’s teenagers with every Adobe After Effects trick they know.
“Young people believe there is no such thing as moral truth.” (Yet those that would brainwash them believe that they are the only morality anyone needs.)
“90% of anyone who receives Christ does so before they are 20 years old.” (Gee, I wonder why. “After young minds have matured and can think for themselves, bullshit like ours barely has any effect!”)
“At the present rate of evangelism among the youth, there will only be about four percent who will become evangelical Christians.” (The rest will be too busy surviving as the fry guy at the local MickeyDee’s cuz they couldn’t get into college thanks to the fact that they graduated high school thinking evolution was fiction.)
“65% say there is no way to tell which religion is true.” (Even more disturbing, less than one percent laughed in the poller’s face when asked this ludicrous question.)
“We’re gonna live in a country that basically is not Christian.” (If only your bullshit was true, I would rejoice.)
“We only have 5-7 years to reach these young people before their hearts are hard.” (Again, we’re not intolerant. It’s just that if you don’t believe what we believe, you’re immoral.)
“God can CAPTURE their heart.” (Notice the hunting and trapping rhetoric. Go, teenagers! Run into the arms of your future slave masters!)
“All of us need to SEIZE each and every opportunity before us to CAPTURE this generation for Jesus Christ.” (Ditto.)
“There is a war to be won, and you are part of that war.” (But of course. It wouldn’t be Christian if it didn’t involve a fucking WAR.)
“We need to have a Battle Cry strategy.” (Continued appeal to lower brain functions: come on kids, don’t join the Crips or the Bloods. Come fight with our vicious gang of moralists instead.)
“You’re part of this massive ARMY that’s come together to take back your generation.” (Secularists: should we start arming ourselves in self defense now?)
And check it out, kids… Although we condemn the marketing that strips you of your soul every day, we only charge $1.99 for BatteCry cell phone wallpaper. Collect them all!
More from the desk of Joseph Goebbels.
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3 May 2006, on 9:56 am
(But of course. It wouldn’t be Christian, if it didn’t involve a fucking WAR.)
Priceless. I love it. I’m surprised none of them use the National Day of Prayer as “proof” that they’re so oppressed the government had to set aside a day of prayer.
I wonder if we could get a National Day of Reasoning and Logic passed…
3 May 2006, on 10:07 am
“I wonder if we could get a National Day of Reasoning and Logic passed… ”
Maybe not this year, but it’s being worked on!
http://www.nationaldayofreason.org/
3 May 2006, on 10:24 am
I wonder if we could get a National Day of Reasoning and Logic passed…
No, since there is no one in Washington with any reasoning or logic. But there are plenty of sky daddy believers to go around.
3 May 2006, on 10:34 am
This is merelye a reiteration of the xtian persecution meme that has been being tossed about for the last few hundred years. You’re absolutely right that they’re attempting to appeal to the baser natures of their followers. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear “Onward, Christian Soldiers” in the background of the site.
What makes this slightly scary is their belief that the end times are a-coming, and these fools pull the string of the monkey lodged in the White House.
3 May 2006, on 10:35 am
That should be “merely a reiteration” not “merelye”…
3 May 2006, on 11:40 am
In that first video with the teenagers holding up the signs with statistics, one girl is holding a sign that says “1 in 10 of us will be raped”. WTF does that have to do with believing in God? God won’t let you get raped if you believe in him? Oh, I know, if you are a good Christian girl, then you won’t put yourself into a position to be raped in the first place, such as you won’t wear revealing clothing, you won’t go to parties with boys, you won’t be unfortunate enough to know a relative, family friend, or respected authority figure who likes to rape young girls by taking advantage or their trust. Yeah, you know, all of those things that girls have complete control over and just need God to show them the way.
What a bunch of sick bastards.
3 May 2006, on 12:00 pm
Bruce,
(said with sarcastic love) I can’t believe you didn’t know that! Of course no true-believing xtian girl EVER gets raped, and no true xtian boy ever gets molested. If you BELIEVE then God will always watch out for you and nothing bad can ever happen to you. If something bad happens then you are NOT a true xtian!
Sheesh!
3 May 2006, on 12:14 pm
Scary stuff, Sean; it really *does* sound like the Nazi youth movement. Theocracy at its worst, man…
3 May 2006, on 12:34 pm
Actually, the True Christian (TM) thing to do would be for those one in ten to marry the rapist. That’s what the bibble says to do, after all.
3 May 2006, on 12:53 pm
“We’re gonna live in a country that basically is not Christian.”
Newsflash, dumbass – it’s not a Christian nation NOW! Never was, in fact:
http://lordvic.blogspot.com/2006/04/demolishing-christian-nation-myth-or.html
3 May 2006, on 1:12 pm
Here’s another idiot who thinks this country was established as an Xian nation — commenting on Amazon re: Ann Coulter’s latest hate diatribe.
And here is my response to the ignorant shit.
3 May 2006, on 1:14 pm
PS: Forgot to mention… Read that link at your own risk. This guy is actually saying we were founded as a theocracy! I hope that doesn’t reflect current nutjob Xian thinking… Could we be at the next frightening point? When “theocracy” itself is no longer a bad word to these people? Maybe we should buy them tickets to Iran.
3 May 2006, on 5:00 pm
Sean, I just read his entry. He actually thinks the tandem of Ann Coulter and Dubya would make better parents than Hef and Gloria Steinem? Wow. So, he’d prefer a screaming hatemonger and a lying nimrod be given custody of a child to a guy who got rich publishing pictures of naked women and a pioneering feminist. Sad part is, from his perspective it makes total sense.
3 May 2006, on 5:10 pm
(Secularists: should we start arming ourselves in self defense now?)
I have plenty of weapons including shotguns, revolvers, and a few semiautomatic pistols if anyone should wish to borrow. On the serious side this is not surprising. The tactics have changed a little since I was in church last but, the outcome was the same. In my early teens the youth program at the church I was attending had us all get together one weekend and of course we were to bring a friend. The event we attended was in Orlando, I cannot remember the name of the group exactly but it had Power in it somewhere. These guys were big and muscular they would rip up phone books, break handcuffs, smash boards, place a concrete block on their chests and have it broken with a sledgehammer, and some other stuff. They did all of this in the name of god, like god gave them the ability to do these things outside of physical possibility. I was bored within 10 min of the show starting and tried to sleep unfortunately everyone else was rude enough to scream for the power of god.
The youth minister that took us to this event moved shortly after so he never got to see the impact of this crap on me. That event started my deviation from the church and religion alltogether. It impacted some of the other people I was with that way as well. Propaganda for can sometimes be propaganda against.
3 May 2006, on 5:37 pm
[...] According to this National Geographic News story, that same American youth being targeted and lured into Battlecry might not even know how to find their own country on a world map. [...]
3 May 2006, on 5:40 pm
Yeah, KR… Anybody who would want their children raise by Bush and Coulter is insane. That means that child is already being raised by someone who looks up to these people! That child is DOOMED.
3 May 2006, on 5:41 pm
That event sounds like something out of The Simpsons, P.C. High-larious.
3 May 2006, on 6:43 pm
Crazy bastards. Every last one of them.
3 May 2006, on 6:57 pm
P.C –
I saw those dudes do a presentation at my PUBLIC high school!
“Pure Power” – they were “all natural” bodybuilders… except for the drug of xian prostheletyzing.
I complained to the asst. principal about being preached at during a mandatory school assembly; he apologized, apparently they pitch their “show” as an anti-drug motivation to schools – and then, at the last minute, they all start talking about the “power of Christ, our saviour”.
Holy shit, I had almost wiped that creepy experience from my mind.
Phone book ripping, massive weight tossing, oiled flexing…
Ewwww.
3 May 2006, on 7:31 pm
Sean I wished I had stayed home to watch the Simpsons that night but, my mom and the youth group pushed that function on me in a weird guilt trip get saved while watching a bunch of guys (I still believe to this day those guys were on steroids) tear and break things. If they had actually built something I might have been impressed however they not only tore up phone books that night they tore up my ability to blindly follow so in a way I am grateful to them.
3 May 2006, on 7:54 pm
These guys were big and muscular they would rip up phone books, break handcuffs, smash boards, place a concrete block on their chests and have it broken with a sledgehammer, and some other stuff. They did all of this in the name of god, like god gave them the ability to do these things outside of physical possibility.
Holy shit…sounds like championship wrestling! LOL!
3 May 2006, on 8:59 pm
These guys were big and muscular they would rip up phone books, break handcuffs, smash boards, place a concrete block on their chests and have it broken with a sledgehammer, and some other stuff. They did all of this in the name of god, like god gave them the ability to do these things outside of physical possibility.
They got nothing on those guys who crucify themselves every Easter. I bet you they would cry like babies.
3 May 2006, on 9:20 pm
They got nothing on those guys who crucify themselves every Easter. I bet you they would cry like babies.
They would faint before the first nail was hammered in or cry “uncle! uncle! I give!”
My husband had on a boxing event one evening and they showed the guys come out and CROSS THEMSELVES and one bowed in prayer before the fight started. After one guy pounded the other guy into the ground, he praised Jeebus for giving him the “strenf” (strength) to win.
4 May 2006, on 4:56 am
Hey I think you’re all looking at this the wrong way. i’m not here to condemn you or anything, but i just want you to see it from our point of view. It’s not brainwashing, it’s telling people about the strongest kind of love ever known to man, which I believe is the love of God. Also the battle we talk of is a spiritual battle, not a physical war.
These beliefs haven’t been forced on me, and I wasn’t brought up in a Christian home. I’ve found this love myself, and my experiences of God rove it in my heart and mind to be true. I’m not asking or telling you to believe because it’s down to your own choice. I respect your right and choice to voice your own opinions and i hope you see that i’m not trying to attack you here.
Thanks for your time,
Frazer
4 May 2006, on 6:33 am
wow that site was so orwellian all i could think of was 1984 but some one mentiond the nazi
4 May 2006, on 6:33 am
“Hey I think you’re all looking at this the wrong way.”
Most of us used to be theists. Strong ones, in fact. We’ve moved on. Perhaps you’re looking at it the wrong way?
” i’m not here to condemn you or anything,”
*snort* That’s what they all say right before they insult us and tell us we’ll burn.
“but i just want you to see it from our point of view.”
Like the whole fucking world isn’t already jive with your pov.
“It’s not brainwashing,”
Ah, so THAT’S why they start with tiny infants. Please.
“it’s telling people about the strongest kind of love ever known to man, which I believe is the love of God.”
yes, love of delusions does seem to be pretty strong.
“Also the battle we talk of is a spiritual battle, not a physical war.”
So that’s imaginary too, then?
“These beliefs haven’t been forced on me, and I wasn’t brought up in a Christian home.”
Is this an attempt to show us it’s not brainwashing?
“I’ve found this love myself,”
Self-love can be very theraputic.
“and my experiences of God rove it in my heart and mind to be true. ”
Tell me. If your doctor told you he knows you’re about to die horribly from cancer but not because he’s run tests or anything but because his “of God rove it in (his) heart and mind to be true” wouldn’t you think he was batshit crazy? exactly what then, makes this okay to say about gawd?
“I’m not asking or telling you to believe because it’s down to your own choice.”
But if we make the wrong choice it’s pain and torture forver. Thanks, you can keep this silly shit.
“I respect your right and choice to voice your own opinions and i hope you see that i’m not trying to attack you here.”
And I hope you understand I’m not personally attacking you, but rather a silly superstition you hold.
Believe what ever you like as well. As long as you keep it to yourself and don’t try to force us to live your way, we’ll get along fine.
So far you’ve been surpringly less insulting then most theists we get here.
4 May 2006, on 7:33 am
Well put Lya.
So far you’ve been surpringly less insulting then most theists we get here.
Yes. Alas, usually the next step is they come back, get more and more irrate, start quoting scripture, then tell us we’re going to burn.
4 May 2006, on 7:56 am
Jesus loves you and so do I …God bless your familys ..since i am a worrior of God i am goin to keep prayin for my generation to grow!WE will Defeat the evil and most Defenatly Defeat The Devil! caus ewe got da BOSS is on our Side can i get a woot woot for OUr Lord and Savior!!!! love ya bye
4 May 2006, on 8:00 am
Hey FrAzEr1803:
You’re full of shit. See, you say THIS:
I’m not asking or telling you to believe because it’s down to your own choice. I respect your right and choice to voice your own opinions and i hope you see that i’m not trying to attack you here.
But then you say THIS:
Also the battle we talk of is a spiritual battle, not a physical war.
What kind of war or battle has no attack? Besides, if you REALLY believed that we could believe what we want, then there is no battle at all. The only battle here is because fucktards like you can’t resist trying to convert us.
4 May 2006, on 8:26 am
This article, or whatever the heck it is seems to have very little in content and appears overloaded with rhetoric. The article offensively alleging that all Christians are ignorant and brainwashed lumping every individual into a herd and addressing it with sweeping generalizations as one big uninformed mass. Not that my finding it offensive likely matters to anyone, but if the intent is actually to change someone’s mind, it does a very poor job.
It seems to set up a strawman version of Christainity, and respond to soundbytes from Ron Luce’s speeches at any given point and twist them for attacking to make whatever point the author intends. Would it not be better if the author decided to respond to the overall speech and its implication as opposed to picking one or two words out of only a few different sentences?
4 May 2006, on 9:02 am
Not that my finding it offensive likely matters to anyone, but if the intent is actually to change someone’s mind, it does a very poor job.
Probably not. This site is by atheists for atheists and is meant as a place where we can share information on the tragic march of ignorance in our society represented by religion. Many of us do things in the the real world to try and change it. This is a place for members of an oppressed and often-silenced minority to find like-minded people, share thoughts and ideas.
That said, I don’t see where Ron Luce’s speeches are being twisted. We link right to them. Anyone can listen for themselves. Our comments reflect what we think about his speeches, and the bullshit brainwashing proganda they represent. Twisting them would be reworking or rewording them, which we are not doing. We attacked this piece of propaganda point by point (with a heavy dose of sarcasm, but the points are still there).
Feel free to respond in kind… Point by point… And prove to us why Ron Luce and his cult are a good thing for America’s youth.
Again… It’s not even Ron Luce’s speech, but sound bytes throughout the video by various sheepherders. Have you watched the video? These aren’t “one or two words” — these are whole sentences, and most of the salient ones are reprinted in our criticism.
4 May 2006, on 9:09 am
Joey joey joe Says:
May 4th, 2006 at 7:56 am e
Jesus loves you and so do I …God bless your familys ..since i am a worrior of God i am goin to keep prayin for my generation to grow!WE will Defeat the evil and most Defenatly Defeat The Devil! caus ewe got da BOSS is on our Side can i get a woot woot for OUr Lord and Savior!!!! love ya bye
Joey Joey Joey… Bruce Springsteen is on your side?? I’m there, dude! When’s the show? Woot! Woot!
4 May 2006, on 9:09 am
Christians will never stop to think about the psychology of NEEDING a “crutch” like a gawd that is created in their own minds for whatever reasons that individual might have for needing such belief…usually it is because they are hoping to live forever. Since there is no way in reality to make this happen, and most are quite disturbed about our mortality, they must cling to a fantasy in order to cope. It is a sort of “self-brainwashing” for most. It is why there are so many versions of xianity and why everyone’s interpretation is different. Each individual adapts the “crutch” to how it suits their own personal needs or how one has gone through the brainwashing process.
Aquinas and Frazer – Gawd did not just come out of the sky and tap you on the shoulder. You had previous knowledge of christianity, and you were most likely “counseled” by xians. Therefore, you chose to believe this mythology just like some believe in Isis to this day (and both of these gawds are silent except in your own minds. Funny people only hear this gawd when they CHOOSE to. Hmmmm
4 May 2006, on 9:14 am
“Jesus loves you and so do I ”
Liar.
“since i am a worrior of God i am goin to keep prayin for my generation to grow!”
You’d think Gawd would bless his warriors with the ability to spell.
“WE will Defeat the evil and most Defenatly Defeat The Devil!”
Please see a doctor. 1-800-THERAPIST. Get help.
~~~~
“This {snip} seems to have very little in content and appears overloaded with rhetoric.”
Kinda like the Bible, huh.
“The article offensively alleging that all Christians are ignorant and brainwashed . . . ”
What part of “We only have 5-7 years to reach these young people before their hearts are hard.” DOESN’T sound like brainwashing to you?
Exactly how one can claim that religion is not brainwashing when they baptize children who conveniently can’t object is amazing to me. It’s clearly brainwashing. One is not born with knowledge of Gawd, one must be taught about the fantasy. That they start so young for most is a clear indication of needing to herd them in BEFORE they are old enough to see through the mythology. Or prey on those who are in a tough spot in some way – emotionally, socially, legally, whatever – and convince them that their problems are not the result of circumstances but of a lack of faith.
It’s shady and underhanded, the way they go about increasing the herd.
4 May 2006, on 9:21 am
This article, or whatever the heck it is seems to have very little in content and appears overloaded with rhetoric.
Christianity iself is loaded with manipulative rhetoric. Pastors use it extensively in their sermons from the pulpit. It is used on television when the painted ladies and toupee-wearing evangelists shed tears and talk about the awesome transforming power of gawd. The more people they get to follow, the richer they become. They bend and twist the rhetoric, use emotional pleas, and all kinds of tactics. I am old enough to have seen them all.
I checked out the Battlecry website. It is using rhetoric to lure in young people who are looking for some kind of excitement in life. It is appealing because it gives them a sense of power they cannot find in their schools or homes. It has more to do with the feeling that POWER has more than a belief in gawd. A rebellious cause. They can go out and pretend they are warriors…strong…fighting a battle for gawd when most, if not all, don’t even understand the religion they are fighting for.
4 May 2006, on 9:52 am
My husband coaches a football team in a semi-pro league. The league is owned by a guy who is deeply involved with Battlecry. If you think the website’s content is bad, it’s especially distasteful in person. The proselytizing isn’t just for the kids, don’t you fret. We were treated to pictures and conversion stories after his trip to San Francisco for a Battlecry meeting. Yikes.
4 May 2006, on 10:39 am
It’s shady and underhanded, the way they go about increasing the herd.
And ya just gotta love the “well-we’ll-just-bring-her-up-in-the-religion-and-let-her-decide-for-herself-when-she-gets-older” bullshit that people tell themselves to make themselves think they’re not shady and underhanded. (Add to that the irrelevant fact that numerous families will disown your fucking-doubting-pansy-ass when you finally come out of the closet.)
4 May 2006, on 10:50 am
That’s what the Gawd of Tough Love wants, Bob! We MUST obey! There’s no independent thought allowed!
4 May 2006, on 10:52 am
“Christianity iself is loaded with manipulative rhetoric. Pastors use it extensively in their sermons from the pulpit. It is used on television when the painted ladies and toupee-wearing evangelists shed tears and talk about the awesome transforming power of gawd. The more people they get to follow, the richer they become. They bend and twist the rhetoric, use emotional pleas, and all kinds of tactics. I am old enough to have seen them all.”
I am sorry if the fraudulent television version of marketed Christianity was the only kind you were taught to percieve, but genuine Christianity is nothing of the sort. The church I attend quite unlike the televangalists the pastor never asks for money. This is likely the same in most of the teens attending battlecry. The type of Christianity seen on tv is a very poor representation of Christianity in real life.
“Christians will never stop to think about the psychology of NEEDING a “crutch” like a gawd that is created in their own minds for whatever reasons that individual might have for needing such belief…usually it is because they are hoping to live forever. Since there is no way in reality to make this happen, and most are quite disturbed about our mortality, they must cling to a fantasy in order to cope. It is a sort of “self-brainwashing” for most. It is why there are so many versions of xianity and why everyone’s interpretation is different. Each individual adapts the “crutch” to how it suits their own personal needs or how one has gone through the brainwashing process.”
Christians don’t think of it as needing a ‘crutch’ maybe that is because God is not used as a crutch by all. Isn’t that a little more than just arrogant and presumptuous? Kind of makes you feel all warm and superior when you can make such a sweeping generalization as that all Christians are only so because they need an emotional crutch. But then again it is not as if that cookie-cutter argument was anything new. Christian usually hear it in sneers from pseudo-intellectual and hateful anti-religionists all over the place. That could be why athiests are the least trusted group in America.
“Feel free to respond in kind… Point by point… And prove to us why Ron Luce and his cult are a good thing for America’s youth.”
Must you even ask? The entire article above had nothing to do with anything Ron Luce et al claimed as their intentions, but on the made up story that Luce and company was bent on a brainwashing conspiracy which I have yet to see actual evidence for. I for one actually attended the detroit battlecry event, and it seemed rather clear that the charge was being led against MTV and other such groups which would capitalize off of leeching away people’s lives. Would you defend such industries?
4 May 2006, on 11:12 am
but genuine Christianity is nothing of the sort.
Uh oh…here we go again with the “True Christian” thing.
THEY believe they are right and you are wrong.
This is how it is with xianity…every xian believes his interpretation is correct. You all make it up as you go along.
Christians don’t think of it as needing a ‘crutch’ maybe that is because God is not used as a crutch by all. Isn’t that a little more than just arrogant and presumptuous?
NO because I was an xian for more than three decades and I see how people use it as a crutch from the inside…and several different denominations. People would not care to believe if there wasn’t something in it for the self. Poor me…help me…lead me….
The issue I have with xianity is why can’t you keep it to yourselves.
4 May 2006, on 11:12 am
“I am sorry if the fraudulent television version of marketed Christianity was the only kind you were taught to percieve, but genuine Christianity is nothing of the sort. ”
NO true Scotsman fallacy. Aside from this statement being a complete and total lie, why do theist NEVER tour the site before they make statement like this?
“Christians don’t think of it as needing a ‘crutch’ maybe that is because God is not used as a crutch by all. Isn’t that a little more than just arrogant and presumptuous?”
Kinda like you assuming we were all raised in an xian-free vaccuum?
“Kind of makes you feel all warm and superior when you can make such a sweeping generalization as that all Christians are only so because they need an emotional crutch. ”
Kind of makes you feel all warm and superior when you can make such a sweeping generalization as that all Atheists are only so because they haven’t experience TRUE Christianity – whatever the fuck that is.
“But then again it is not as if that cookie-cutter argument was anything new. ”
True. We do see the same stupid crap from xians over and over and over again.
“Christian usually hear it in sneers from pseudo-intellectual and hateful anti-religionists all over the place. That could be why athiests are the least trusted group in America. ”
Guilt by association fallacy. False comparison. “Anti-religionists” aren’t automatically atheists. Nice try though. And we’re only mistrusted because theists can’t be bothered to learn anything about us. They just come around making a bunch of clueless and infantile assumptions and accusations and then run away crying when they’re proven wrong.
“Must you even ask?”
Evasion.
4 May 2006, on 11:12 am
“Would you defend such industries?”
Completely irrevant.
4 May 2006, on 11:13 am
oops IRRELEVANT.
4 May 2006, on 11:33 am
Isn’t that a little more than just arrogant and presumptuous?”
Isn’t it a little more than arrogant and presumptuous to believe you are so damned better than people with other beliefs and that you are so good just by believing in a magical being you are going to be rewarded by gawd with allowing you to live forever with this Great Wizard somewhere over the rainbow???
4 May 2006, on 11:45 am
I am sorry if the fraudulent television version of marketed Christianity was the only kind you were taught to percieve, but genuine Christianity is nothing of the sort. The church I attend quite unlike the televangalists the pastor never asks for money. This is likely the same in most of the teens attending battlecry. The type of Christianity seen on tv is a very poor representation of Christianity in real life.
I beg your pardon, but I was raised in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod…my parents still are lukewarm members. I belonged to the Baptist church for two years when I was a teenager after my grandmother died and my mother was trying to find some better comfort than the cold Lutheran church had given…she ended up going back to the Lutheran church because Baptists started dictating as to how she should live and too intrusive. My husband was a presbyterian…we were members of three Presbyterian churches. I had been a sunday school teacher…my husband was an elder and a sunday school superintendent. We left for awhile and joined the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. Then went back to Presbyterian. They ALL had different versions of xianity…and they all believed they had the right version. In between I have visited the Pentecostal church (when invited by friends we were visiting) and have been to a Jewish synagogue a few times.(They are not pushy at all like xians.) I have been to a black Church of God for a unity thing.
So, we have had plenty of experience with the xian religion. It was not an overnight decision to reject the gawd beliefs. It was a “deconversion process” and lots of questioning…and things with xianity and the bible of contradictions did not add up. We are free now, and happy. I am very content taking nature walks and sitting on my porch listening to the birds sing instead of in a mythology temple listening to some dude who doesn’t know any more than I do tell me how bad I am week, after week, after week.
4 May 2006, on 11:50 am
Star is my hero.
4 May 2006, on 11:50 am
Aquinas – another point I need to make is that I have studied World Religions in college. Also Bible as Literature in a Social Context, and World Mythologies, Native American culture, Asian culture and beliefs as well as Anthropology. It is when one really begins to study things outside his own world that we begin to question our own beliefs.
4 May 2006, on 11:50 am
Lya – we are a great team here.
4 May 2006, on 12:08 pm
Hey aquinas –
Would it not be better if the author decided to respond to the overall speech and its implication as opposed to picking one or two words out of only a few different sentences?
I suppose you’re too stupid to realize that A) the entire speeches by that Luce dickhead are just endless streams of these empty soundbytes, and B) specific quotes were provided which sum up large portions of the repetitive redundant rhetoric (to avoid redundant repetition, of course, because it’s, you know, redundant…).
If you think something was grossly mischaracterized, why don’t you get off your own lazy ass and point so something that rev. dickhead said that isn’t like these quotes and show us we’re wrong? You know, use FACTS and LOGIC to build an argument?
Oh, right – that would require brainpower, and you had to leave your IQ at the door the first time you drank the koolaid.
4 May 2006, on 12:20 pm
Christian usually hear it in sneers from pseudo-intellectual and hateful anti-religionists all over the place. That could be why athiests are the least trusted group in America.
Atheists are the least trusted group in America because we represent REALITY that is a threat to your delusional beliefs. You see is as the drug addict sees someone who is trying to rescue them from their addictions and don’t want to give up the drug. You are so many, and atheists are far fewer, yet we are a huge threat to your beliefs. Why is that your faith would shatter so easily?
The entire article above had nothing to do with anything Ron Luce et al claimed as their intentions, but on the made up story that Luce and company was bent on a brainwashing conspiracy which I have yet to see actual evidence for.
Aquinas – You cannot read between the lines and recognize the propaganda rhetoric because it is what is drilled into you week after week. You are blinded by faith, will not question anything xian and will only see what you want to see. Like Ambience on the other post, I think Aquinas also deserves this
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1297/1706/1600/assclown.jpg
4 May 2006, on 12:47 pm
Shoot – now *I’m* the one who missed all the fun!
*raps (badly)* Go Lya-and-Star, go Lya-and-Star, go-go, go Lya-and-Star!
4 May 2006, on 12:56 pm
Eve…now that you are here, the “Three Female Musketeers” team is complete.
I have another comment awaiting moderation…hurry up and let it through! I’m on a roll!
4 May 2006, on 1:00 pm
Vic, please keep the ad homenims and personal attacks to a minimum I am trying to have a discussion here.
“If you think something was grossly mischaracterized, why don’t you get off your own lazy ass and point so something that rev. dickhead said that isn’t like these quotes and show us we’re wrong? You know, use FACTS and LOGIC to build an argument?”
Could I hear more about what you think before I argue against it? Because I have not seen a coherent case for or against anything specific so far, all i see is a group of people who hate Christianity and are against battle cry for the reason that it is political. Since you are the positive case, make one. The burden of proof is on you, and the ball is in your court.
“The issue I have with xianity is why can’t you keep it to yourselves.”
The answer to that should be obvious to someone who claims they once were a Christian. That is the implications of its truth.
“So, we have had plenty of experience with the xian religion. It was not an overnight decision to reject the gawd beliefs. It was a “deconversion process” and lots of questioning…and things with xianity and the bible of contradictions did not add up.”
What were the differences in their core beliefs that you perceived? and while you have convinced me that you have had a lot of “church experience” that is evident, but you have not convinced me that you were or knew what it meant to be a Christian. Also, what about Christianity does not add up? I am curious.
“NO true Scotsman fallacy. Aside from this statement being a complete and total lie, why do theist NEVER tour the site before they make statement like this?”
Ha ha nice try, no true Schotsman fallacy, lets see is it equally fallacious to say no true circle has three congruent angles? Of course What am I lying about? Am I lying about Televangelists trying to market Christianity? or Am I lying about the fact that not all Christians and not all Churches practice that? Either way it was a sweeping Generalization. Do you not think pastors actually believe what they preach?
““Anti-religionists” aren’t automatically atheists. Nice try though.”
If they were not, what would they be?
“Isn’t it a little more than arrogant and presumptuous to believe you are so damned better than people with other beliefs and that you are so good just by believing in a magical being you are going to be rewarded by gawd with allowing you to live forever with this Great Wizard somewhere over the rainbow???”
You assume to much. I believe no such thing. I as a Christian am no better than anyone else. I am merely forgiven of my sins. You can be as well.
“Kinda like you assuming we were all raised in an xian-free vaccuum?”
Did I say that?
“And we’re only mistrusted because theists can’t be bothered to learn anything about us. They just come around making a bunch of clueless and infantile assumptions and accusations and then run away crying when they’re proven wrong.”
Oh yes I am shaking with fear.
“Evasion.”
If it was an evasion then why did I answer in the very next sentence?
“Aquinas – another point I need to make is that I have studied World Religions in college. Also Bible as Literature in a Social Context, and World Mythologies, Native American culture, Asian culture and beliefs as well as Anthropology. It is when one really begins to study things outside his own world that we begin to question our own beliefs.”
Certainly That I would agree with. Thus far, I have found Christianity has withstood an enormous amount of scrutiny.
Getting back to the question of BattleCry itself for a moment, if indeed BattleCry was a political conspiracy, then I think I would find Christians taking such a position as well. The fact that leastwise the vast majority of the opposing groups are atheist seems to hint at ulterior motives. While it may be too far to merely presume, I have a difficult time appreciating the general approach of those protesting BattleCry. Rather than actually protesting the movement itself, protesters seem to come off protesting Christianity as a whole.
4 May 2006, on 1:07 pm
but you have not convinced me that you were or knew what it meant to be a Christian.
I do not need to convince you. You yourself do not know what it means to be a xian. If you don’t know your own bible enough to know the contradictions contained within it is not my problem. Check out this site…someone has gone through great efforts to put the contradictions side by side for you.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Certainly That I would agree with. Thus far, I have found Christianity has withstood an enormous amount of scrutiny.
I could insert Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam as well as a number of other religions who also make this claim.
History has shown that just because a large bumber of people are gullible and believe something doesn’t necessarily make it true.
4 May 2006, on 1:13 pm
“Ha ha nice try, no true Schotsman (sic) fallacy, lets see is it equally fallacious to say no true circle has three congruent angles? Of course What am I lying about? Am I lying about Televangelists trying to market Christianity? or Am I lying about the fact that not all Christians and not all Churches practice that? Either way it was a sweeping Generalization. Do you not think pastors actually believe what they preach?”
No, the point is that whenever confronted with various negatively viewed forms of xianity, the stock response is that “they aren’t True Christians (TM).” You’re participating in a kind of marketting as well when you tell people that they can just ignore the negative apsects of your religion and when you claim to have the inside scoop on what the “core beliefs” are. If the core beliefs were so easily recognized, why is there so much infighting and disagreement. Sorry to break it to you, you’re pulling a No True Scotsman.
4 May 2006, on 1:14 pm
Aquinas, I know the main point xians believe comes from this passage and I am writing it totally from memory.
John 3:16 For Gawd so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever should believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Being an xian is wishing for an afterlife and needing a psychological crutch to hold you up. People want to live forever. I have accepted that nothing lives forever…not one thing. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change that, although the fantasy that one will outsmart nature helps many deal with the inevitable.
4 May 2006, on 1:17 pm
Above in #54 I meant Number, not bumber…(typo.)
4 May 2006, on 1:23 pm
Do you not think pastors actually believe what they preach?
Generally no. I think they are like everyone else and it’s just a convenient job for many farmboys who don’t know what else to do with their lives. There are few who really believe in their religion. Funny how there are never any executives at Microsoft or IBM called to give up their jobs to be pastors. I have a relative who failed the BAR exam and all of a sudden Gawd called him into the ministry…how convenient. He gets a nice house, car allowance and cushy salary. And all of the churchies are willing to kiss his butt and do anything for him. He is in his glory.
4 May 2006, on 1:27 pm
Hey aquinas –
I haven’t made any personal attacks yet, assmunch.
Okay, that’s one, but that’s the only one.
See, it’s not an ‘attack’ to call a stupid person stupid.
And you ARE stupid, demonstrably so. Intellectually dishonest too.
Now, let’s respond to your latest drivel:
Vic, please keep the ad homenims and personal attacks to a minimum I am trying to have a discussion here.
Liar. You’re trying to dodge now, get in your licks, and then get the fuck out. I gave you DIRECT questions that you deliberately avoided because of your feigned sensitivity.
“If you think something was grossly mischaracterized, why don’t you get off your own lazy ass and point so something that rev. dickhead said that isn’t like these quotes and show us we’re wrong? You know, use FACTS and LOGIC to build an argument?”
Could I hear more about what you think before I argue against it?
That was MY point, stupid. You came in and blanketly claimed that the original post was taking quotes out of context.
I challenged you to back up that claim by either A) showing how some of those quotes were out of context by PROVIDING the context and demonstrating how that context made the assertions of the original article false, and/or B) if you felt the general gist of Luce’s drivel was not given by the quotes, to then boil it down to your own precis and submit it here for us to peruse.
Instead, predictably, you chose to do neither, but rather to whine about how ‘unfairly’ you’re being treated and how ‘mean’ we are.
The site’s called “God is for SUCKERS!”, stupid – did you actually not expect any sort of brusque delivery? Grow some skin and buy a crash helmet, or stay the fuck off the internet.
Because I have not seen a coherent case for or against anything specific so far, all i see is a group of people who hate Christianity and are against battle cry for the reason that it is political.
You say that like it’s not a problem.
How about I start a political action group that ministers to kids by giving them courses in symbolic logic and critical thinking and then christian-apologetic refutation. Would you hate/be afraid of/be against such a movement?
Since you are the positive case, make one. The burden of proof is on you, and the ball is in your court.
Funny how you dodged making a case yourself and then draw this out now.
Fuck you, you intellectually dishonest fucktard. Make your OWN case first.
Or better yet, just fuck off – we’ve heard it all and refuted it all before.
4 May 2006, on 1:32 pm
“Do you not think pastors actually believe what they preach?”
I don’t think any televangelist believes what they preach.
““Anti-religionists” aren’t automatically atheists. Nice try though.”
“If they were not, what would they be?”
There are plenty of theists who hate religion. Ever heard of the “God without Religion” movement? Anti-religion does not automatically mean one is an atheist.
~~~~
The next isn’t a quote of mine, but:
“Isn’t it a little more than arrogant and presumptuous to believe you are so damned better than people with other beliefs and that you are so good just by believing in a magical being you are going to be rewarded by gawd with allowing you to live forever with this Great Wizard somewhere over the rainbow???”
“You assume to much. I believe no such thing. I as a Christian am no better than anyone else. I am merely forgiven of my sins. You can be as well.”
Translation: I know I just said I’m not better than you, but I am better than you because I’m forgiven. Therefore while I’m enjoying the eternal beach partyw ith Jesus – your sinning ass will be in hell. Unless you drink the kool-aid too.
“Did I say that?”
Each of your posts so far has clearly insinuated that we just don’t know anything, or not enough about xianity.
“Oh yes I am shaking with fear.”
Someone’s gone off his meds. Did I threaten you at all? Or are you feeling a little insecure?
“If it was an evasion then why did I answer in the very next sentence?”
I called it evasion, Captain Slow Wit, because you DIDN’T answer the question at all. You blathered on with some more non-specific crap. Complete failure to answer the question.
More answering quote that were not mine:
“Thus far, I have found Christianity has withstood an enormous amount of scrutiny. ”
Translation: “I haven’t studied any other religions” or “Nah-Nah-Nah can’t hear you!”
“Rather than actually protesting the movement itself, protesters seem to come off protesting Christianity as a whole.”
Perhaps Xianity is the root problem, Captain Slow Wit?
4 May 2006, on 1:33 pm
“Ha ha nice try, no true Schotsman fallacy, lets see is it equally fallacious to say no true circle has three congruent angles?”
You don’t know what the No True Scotsman fallacy is, do you.
“What am I lying about?”
To quote: “but genuine Christianity is nothing of the sort”. As there are 200 sects of xianity in the US and 8000 worldwide it’s clear xians can’t agree on what constitutes “genuine” xianity. Therefore, for you to claim that a certian version is not genuine is a lie. It clearly is to those that follow it.
“Either way it was a sweeping Generalization.”
Another lie.
4 May 2006, on 1:42 pm
Star: Aquinas, I know the main point xians believe comes from this passage and I am writing it totally from memory.
John 3:16 For Gawd so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever should believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
- And before most xians even come to this passage they have to generally presuppose that 1) such a thing as a “god” exists; 2) nevertheless there is only one of these “god” things; 3) this “god” directly communicated its existence, the nature of its existence, and how to handle its existence to humans; 4) it did so solely and exclusively via the orthodox xian bible which it generated directly through the orthodox biblical writers; 5) parts of this orthodox xian bible are to be interpreted literally, i.e., believed word for word, but not others; and 6) this particular passage is one of the parts that is to be interpreted literally.
- And still there are differences of opinion within xianity about almost every single one of these presuppositions except perhaps # 1.
Aquinas: “Aquinas – another point I need to make is that I have studied World Religions in college. Also Bible as Literature in a Social Context, and World Mythologies, Native American culture, Asian culture and beliefs as well as Anthropology. It is when one really begins to study things outside his own world that we begin to question our own beliefs.”
Certainly That I would agree with. Thus far, I have found Christianity has withstood an enormous amount of scrutiny.
- Aquinas, have you yourself studied the subjects Star has and if so, in what form(s)? Is the scrutiny you mention your own? If so, how deeply have you scrutinized?
4 May 2006, on 2:19 pm
Vic said:
How about I start a political action group that ministers to kids by giving them courses in symbolic logic and critical thinking and then christian-apologetic refutation. Would you hate/be afraid of/be against such a movement?
Damned straight. Any theist here want to take that one on? This succinctly describes exactly what our problem is with organizations like Battlecry.
Funny that Aquinas srtaight-up admits that Battlecry is a political organization. Here is Ron Luce on Bill O’Reilly (brilliantly smacked down by Sunsara Taylor, despite the fact that she was on a network and a show hostile to her — with selective footage of the demonstrations and counter-demonstrations).
Luce’s exact words on the show: “We’re not a political organization.”
Doh! Two-faced Xian liars? Say it ain’t so!
4 May 2006, on 3:55 pm
As I’ve quoted before about xians getting involved in politics:
“Tell the people [xians] again to obey their rulers and governments, and to do what they tell them to do. Tell them to be ready to do any honest work.” -Titus 3:1 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
Not to mention Jesus himself saying, “…Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.” -Matthew 22:21 (King James Version (KJV)).
And about what they *should* be spending their time on instead:
“Our people should learn to spend their time in doing good things to help people who are poor. In that way, our people will not waste their time.” -Titus 3:13
Finally, what Jesus himself said were a xian’s two main commandments:
“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” -Mark 12:30-31 (KJV)
4 May 2006, on 5:17 pm
JESUS LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JESUS ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAY GOD BLESS YOU IN ALL OF YOUR DAYS !!!!!!!!!!
GOd BLESS YOU!!!
4 May 2006, on 5:19 pm
I love you and God loves…all in all I’m not coming to you in anger because I know the truth and no one can change my mind I just have one quesion for you…Where do you think you will go after you die,why don’t you believe in Jesus???
4 May 2006, on 7:13 pm
Well. That was fun. Nice smackdown, gang.
BELCH.
What’s for dessert?
4 May 2006, on 7:58 pm
Jesus LOVES you a ton!!!
4 May 2006, on 8:00 pm
Without God live is NOTHING
4 May 2006, on 8:09 pm
I love you guys and God loves you-TONS!!! I just have one question for you-do you have any reason for not believing in God or do you just hate everyone who does. I am not going to come to you in anger because I know what I believe and NO one can change my mind. But I just want to know why you don’t believe in God???
4 May 2006, on 9:58 pm
Yes, there’s a political dimension to “BattleCry.” It’s part of a system, of manufacturing pseudo-reasons for young people to act, and then pipelining some portion of them into political action.
This is explored somewhat on http://www.acquiretheevidence.com/ which is just getting started…
4 May 2006, on 10:53 pm
But I just want to know why you don’t believe in God???
I think that xians must pay more attention to education. They seem to have a real hard time with reading and reading comprehension. I don’t think any of us want to go back and rewrite what we wrote in the zillion comments posted all over this blog. Geesh!
Without God live is NOTHING
Then you need to get some professional help if you believe that. Because if you ever doubt, I fear you will do something stupid.
4 May 2006, on 11:04 pm
I am not going to come to you in anger because I know what I believe and NO one can change my mind.
The no one can change my mind part is very close-minded…and you are brainwashed.
Xians love the word “anger”….my niece and sister use it a lot.
“I don’t have any anger towards you”
“I don’t come in anger”
“Why do you have so much anger”
Well *I* AM getting angry because xians are obnoxious and just don’t know when to stop intruding in people’s lives.
The anger comes from people who want to interfere in my life and who try to cram their mythology down my throat. I never comment on xian blogs…I don’t go door to door pushing my atheism, I don’t even bring it up unless provoked. This is an atheist blog that makes fun of xian suckers, and xians come here and just ASK to be “persecuted” and told they are a bunch of asshats. It’s because you think you are deserving of being treated badly…so you psychologically bring it upon yourselves. No one is going to go hunt for you to tell you that you are a damn idiot if you are doing your own thing and keeping your mythology to yourselves. If you bring it out and start proselytizing, then in this country…which last I heard is still a FREE COUNTRY…you will hear counterpoints to your beliefs.
4 May 2006, on 11:06 pm
BELCH.
What’s for dessert?
Sean, you were hungry for dessert? Are you getting full yet?
5 May 2006, on 12:21 am
# Stardust1954 Says:
May 4th, 2006 at 11:06 pm e
BELCH.
What’s for dessert?
Sean, you were hungry for dessert? Are you getting full yet?
Hells no. The kiddies at Battlecry are only worth a small snack. I would really love to hear from their slavemasters… But those people, like fuckhead Pied Piper Ron Luce, prefer to let children fight their crusades for them.
5 May 2006, on 7:47 am
Whoa Whoa…slavematers??? haha ya right. Their more like role models! You will know the truth when judgement day comes…actually I think that already know the truth and choose to ignore it. God is a merciful God and loves everyone even though they may hate him. HE LOVES YOU
5 May 2006, on 8:10 am
We don’t shove our knowledge of God down your throat…we do what the bible tells us to. To preach God’s word all across the world and thats is what we are going to do. God gave us his son the least we can do is give him our lives. Did you used to be a Christian??
5 May 2006, on 10:06 am
Kathy…there is no gawd. He is a figment of your imagination. You want to believe in him because you are afraid to die. You are not reading anything we write here. You are preaching like a robot. Go read some mythology and you will begin to understand…IF you can get the idea out of your head that “satan” planted mythology. Do you go to a doctor when you are sick? You are using technology right now. It is SCIENCE that improves life, and human curiosity that allows us to make our lives better, while this gawd of yours sits silently…because GAWD DOESN’T EXIST.
Jim Kinnet –
You are here now, aren’t you? Fundamentalists are doing what their ancient holy book says to do and wants to kill the infidel…even YOU.Religion is dangerous and such a waste to be fighting about it. Today’s religion is tomorrow’s mythology. You don’t have knowledge of gawd…where is he? And I was a xian for more than 30 years…if you knew how to READ you will find that most atheists on this blog were xians at one time…and most of us are older…not teenagers. Xians are too afraid to question things, they are too afraid of having their fantasy ripped away and having to deal with the realities of life and death. Every religion, past and present has the promise of an afterlife. If there was not that fantasy of living forever, not many would be even remotely interested in religion. Religion is for those who like to have pity parties with themselves and cry how “helpless” they are. It’s time for people to grow up, and wake up…OR LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE. This is the USA and last I heard it is a free country. If you are going to openly profess your delusional beliefs, you are going to get rebutted. AND if you come to a site called GOD IS FOR SUCKERS! you are going to be made fun of…see top right hand corner of your screen.
5 May 2006, on 10:52 am
Fine, preach do whatever shit your book of mythology tells you too but dont scream persecution or act suprised when someones tells you to stow your bullshit.
5 May 2006, on 11:47 am
Hmm… the Battlecry freaks appear to be shitting all over us now…
HELLO again folks! It’s been a while, but I’ll be back soon! I’ve been deep in writing for the last couple weeks and normally I’m net-catatonic at that point, but I’m waking up now. See you in a day or two with a fun new post!
5 May 2006, on 11:53 am
Kathy, Jim, M and the rest: What exactly do you hope to accomplish with your bad grammar, unreasoned arguments, misspellings, and logical fallacies? Do you think that by spouting a bunch of xian platitudes that you’re going to win converts among us unsaved heathens? Perhaps we’ll become jealous of your self-assured smugness and want the arrogance that only jebus can provide? Maybe you think we’ll finally realize that it’s not that we don’t believe in gawd, but that we hate him? Could be that you think we’ll start feeling guilty because he loves us tons and it hurts his feelings that we don’t reciprocate? Or most likely, you think we’ll either be too scared to not believe in him if you mention Hell enough times or that we’ll want to join the “Winning Side (TM)” and take up the Battlecry? Before you continue babbling about what your babble or gawd tells you to do, give us a concise statement of what you hope to accomplish and why we should listen to you, NOT using the bibble or any quotes from your Battlecry thought police. Until then, you’re nothing more than trolls.
5 May 2006, on 12:34 pm
“You really believe in Gawd, you just hate him”
Bullshit. Can’t hate something I don’t believe in. Sorry if your tiny brain can’t grasp this.
“You’re going to hell if you don’t believe”
That’s how they got you, isn’t it? Sorry, we don’t negotiate with terrorists.
“I love you and pray for you anyway.”
I don’t know you, so I can’t say I love you, but if you keep your mythology out of our public lives — tax-supported government institutions, like public schools, for instance — and keep it in your little cult buildings, we won’t have to bitch-slap you with the Constitution over and over.
5 May 2006, on 12:36 pm
Oh, and if Jerrey Falwell and that vicious little psycho businessman Ted Haggard are your role models, then you should start praying for yourselves, because you’ve been taken in by a cult.
5 May 2006, on 1:13 pm
Kathy Wallace: Whoa Whoa…slavematers???
Correct spelling: “slavemasters”
KW: haha ya right.
I’m guessing you mean “yeah.”
KW: Their more like role models!
Correct spelling: “they’re”
KW: You will know the truth when judgement day comes…
No, *you* will know the truth when you die.
KW: actually I think that already know the truth and choose to ignore it.
Since the only truth anyone can truly “know” is that every single human being dies, yes, *I* know it and most definitely do *not* ignore it – but you do *not* know it and therefore try to ignore it – only you can’t, can you?
KW: God is a merciful God and loves everyone even though they may hate him. HE LOVES YOU
Is that why he did THIS?
Jim kinnet: We don’t shove our knowledge of God down your throat…
When you insist on it being part of the government that is supposed to represent everyone, including those who disagree with you, yes, you do.
JK: we do what the bible tells us to. To preach God’s word all across the world and thats is what we are going to do.
Actually, the idea that the bible tells all xians present and future to “preach god’s word all across the world” is based on one passage, the Great Commission of Jesus; the problem is that in that passage, Jesus does NOT say all xians should do this. He ONLY tells his 11 disciples to do this – doesn’t mention anyone else. Look it up: Matthew 28:16-20.
JK: God gave us his son the least we can do is give him our lives.
I thought that was his “free gift” – emphasis on the “free gift.” You’re telling me your idea of god is of someone who only does this for his children if they do something for him in return?
JK: Did you used to be a Christian??
Yes, just like a lot of people on this site. You really should read as many of our posts and comments as you can to get to know us first.
5 May 2006, on 1:28 pm
Hey Kathy:
Their more like role models!
Too bad they couldn’t be more like grammar teachers.
Or basic logic. I mean, look at this confused mess:
You will know the truth when judgement day comes…
God is a merciful God and loves everyone even though they may hate him.
You seem to imply a threat with the ‘judgement’ day thing, but condemning people doesn’t exactly seem merciful. Well, which is it?
5 May 2006, on 1:41 pm
Vic, I like what Sean says: “Sorry, we don’t negotiate with terrorists.” If god were so great, he wouldn’t have to threaten us to keep us on the “right” path – of course, he’d have to exist, first.
5 May 2006, on 1:42 pm
Kathy Wallace: Whoa Whoa…slavematers???
Correct spelling: “slavemasters”
Well, in case of some preachers, I think “slavematers” might be a perfect turn of phrase.
5 May 2006, on 1:55 pm
Hey, visitors from Battlecry, read this:
http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php
5 May 2006, on 2:55 pm
I do not need to convince you. You yourself do not know what it means to be a xian. If you don’t know your own bible enough to know the contradictions contained within it is not my problem. Check out this site…someone has gone through great efforts to put the contradictions side by side for you.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Why should I believe that you were ever a Christian if you yourself do not even know what it means to be a Christian? As for the alleged contradictions, skepticsannotatedbible.com has been refuted by numerous sites, and based on very sloppy scholarship. If you are going to claim that all Christians are stupid, at least come up with a serious argument against Christianity and none of these obscure passages trying to prove the Bible says the earth is flat nonsense.
Certainly That I would agree with. Thus far, I have found Christianity has withstood an enormous amount of scrutiny.
I could insert Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam as well as a number of other religions who also make this claim.
Maybe they have then.
History has shown that just because a large bumber of people are gullible and believe something doesn’t necessarily make it true.
so what?
No, the point is that whenever confronted with various negatively viewed forms of xianity, the stock response is that “they aren’t True Christians ™.”
I don’t know if I can judge whether the people are true Christians or not, but they were certainly at the time not following Christian principals. They may have been Christians, they may have not, but that has no bearing on whether Christianity as a whole is true or not.
You’re participating in a kind of marketting as well when you tell people that they can just ignore the negative apsects of your religion and when you claim to have the inside scoop on what the “core beliefs” are. If the core beliefs were so easily recognized, why is there so much infighting and disagreement. Sorry to break it to you, you’re pulling a No True Scotsman.
Give me a break *rolls eyes* those who do not follow Christ’s teachings are not CHRISTians, by definition. Its is not a no true schotts man, if it is, then how about you answer my previous question of what is the fallacy in saying no true circle has three congruent angles?
“but genuine Christianity is nothing of the sort”. As there are 200 sects of xianity in the US and 8000 worldwide it’s clear xians can’t agree on what constitutes “genuine” xianity. Therefore, for you to claim that a certian version is not genuine is a lie. It clearly is to those that follow it.
Genuine Christianity follows the teachings of Christ, relating to salvation, sin, etc. If they do not follow the teaching of Christ, they are not Christians by definition. Of these 200 Christian groups, there is apparently is profound SIMILARITIES in our core doctrines, i have been to numerous churches, and whether Baptist, pentecostal, or missionary alliance, I have found the same core doctrines throughout. In regards to the question in the first place, don’t you think every Christian already knows there are a lot of denominations???? Why is this even considered a problem?
Being an xian is wishing for an afterlife and needing a psychological crutch to hold you up. People want to live forever. I have accepted that nothing lives forever…not one thing. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change that, although the fantasy that one will outsmart nature helps many deal with the inevitable.
Replace wishing with, “believing one exists”. On the other hand, assuming you are right, that would mean you get your jollies from kicking crutches out from under your hapless victims.
Generally no. I think they are like everyone else and it’s just a convenient job for many farmboys who don’t know what else to do with their lives. There are few who really believe in their religion. Funny how there are never any executives at Microsoft or IBM called to give up their jobs to be pastors. I have a relative who failed the BAR exam and all of a sudden Gawd called him into the ministry…how convenient. He gets a nice house, car allowance and cushy salary. And all of the churchies are willing to kiss his butt and do anything for him. He is in his glory.
I know stories that go just the opposite way of people giving up a lot to go into the ministry. But then again I did ask from your personal experience.
I challenged you to back up that claim by either A) showing how some of those quotes were out of context by PROVIDING the context and demonstrating how that context made the assertions of the original article false, and/or B) if you felt the general gist of Luce’s drivel was not given by the quotes, to then boil it down to your own precis and submit it here for us to peruse.
I came in under the impression that this was supposed to provide reason to believe BattleCry was just some major political conspiracy, so are you surprised when I see no case presented? MY POINT though was not so much that they were out of context (and I will defend that) but that there was no content. It was all a lot of hateful rhetoric. But perhaps I was wrong and this article is not about your silly conspiracy theory, but something else, what then?
Another lie.
Was it? Please demonstrate.
2) nevertheless there is only one of these “god” things; 3) this “god” directly communicated its existence, the nature of its existence, and how to handle its existence to humans; 4) it did so solely and exclusively via the orthodox xian bible which it generated directly through the orthodox biblical writers; 5) parts of this orthodox xian bible are to be interpreted literally, i.e., believed word for word, but not others; and 6) this particular passage is one of the parts that is to be interpreted literally.
Please inform me what denomination disagrees with these, and the nature of their disagreement.
Hey aquinas –
I haven’t made any personal attacks yet, assmunch.
Okay, that’s one, but that’s the only one.
See, it’s not an ‘attack’ to call a stupid person stupid.
And you ARE stupid, demonstrably so. Intellectually dishonest too.
I have to admit, you are playing the role of the hateful and inflammatory athiest really well, this forum gets a gold star.
The hateful rhetoric, the inability to have a reasoned discussion with someone who has a dissenting opinion… we have a poster child here. This of course is one of the many reasons atheism in general is on the decline. So keep up the good work. Suckers 
The greatest part about this, is I can actually tell you that is what you are doing and you probably won’t even admit it.
5 May 2006, on 2:57 pm
Oh forgot this SAB refuted.
http://www.tektonics.org/sab/sab.html
5 May 2006, on 3:19 pm
atheism in general is on the decline.
That is a lie. You wish it was on the decline. If it was in the decline you would not be so goddam defensive about your beliefs and you would not have such a huge persecution complex. You yourself do not fully believe if you were totally honest about it.
If you find this website so hateful and inflammatory,why do you keep coming back? Are you seeking answers? Are you doubting? Probably. I don’t go to xian blogs, I don’t go door to door, but I am sure going to fight back when I feel my rights and freedom is being threatened by a bunch of theists and theocrats. If xians are going to try to force their beliefs on everyone in a free nation, those who oppose you will speak out against you. If you can’t take it, then you better stay the hell away from places like this that hurt your itty bitty feelings. I am sick of being told some gawd is going to throw me into the pits of hell because I am such a bad person and that I should believe in a gawd that has killed babies, caused catastrophes and all sorts of violence. That is by far more hateful than anything you will read on this blog.
5 May 2006, on 3:28 pm
Aquinas,
You expect anyone to take you seriously after this load of idiocy?
Solve the problems in xianity before you get involved in democracy.
Cocksnack.
5 May 2006, on 3:33 pm
I know stories that go just the opposite way of people giving up a lot to go into the ministry.
Bullshit..
Aquinas…We challenged YOU to provide EVIDENCE that a gawd exists. Xians always back out of this with “it’s faith” or “it’s a feeling I have”…IT’S IN YOUR MIND…don’t you get it? You have no evidence except an old book written by MEN. My uncle just died today. He was going to die no matter what magic words were said over him. My father’s family kept adjusting the magic words until it fit the situation. That’s what xians do…they adjust their thinking to create their own truths. This gawd is useless…cannot stop murder, famine,natural disaster, atrocities like beheadings of his own people. Because this gawd is NOT REAL.
5 May 2006, on 3:38 pm
Marcus, So Aquinas is also a gay hater…great guy isn’t he, so full of xian love….bullshit!
Ironically, he writes It seems to me that these people merely want to have their feelings validated,
He is talking about homosexuals but it could very well be reversed and applied to dumbass xians who want to believe so badly they will go to any lengths to win converts in order to validate their own beliefs.
5 May 2006, on 4:03 pm
Aquinas hasn’t responded to any of our comments and questions he so neatly compiled into one big comment #89 and then at the end accuses us of an inability to have a discussion with him simply because he does not have any answers to what we have challenged him on about his religion.
5 May 2006, on 4:28 pm
“The inability to have a reasoned discussion”??? Why do they resort to reason when they have faith? I just gotta say they do not impress me as being a people who in fact have the ability to reason. They are indoctrinated at such an early age that it takes quite an effort to begin to think for yourself. Most fail and fail well at it. What they term reason is much like their idea of a true xian. It doesn’t exist except when they determine that it does. They always control and have a need for control of those perceptions lest we get the wrong impression. All thier lives are calculated out to be preplanned and programed so that they can get into heaven. Reason rarely if ever enters into any decision they make.
War is the ultimate expression of hatred. Why is it that so many xians are in support of GWB? Those who are not in support have not been saying much. Why?
My router and server problems have been fixed I hope. Atheism is not on the decline it is in fact the fastest growing segment of rational thought.
5 May 2006, on 4:38 pm
Hey, Aguinas. You might want to check out a far more serious discussion we are having in another thread.
5 May 2006, on 4:45 pm
*GUFFAW!* (with your best Reggie Rich voice)
5 May 2006, on 5:09 pm
Hey,if all you guys have on us is correcting us on our gramer(oops) then that is just fine. The bible also said that us Christians (or xians as you call us) will be persecuted for the sake of his name. In the Bible when Jesus is speaking about “sending us out” the Great Commission…he was not only talking to the 11 desciples-correction-he was talking to everyone, but at the time talking to the 11 desciples up front. All you who used to be Christians know the truth and you know that the end times are here-yes I said the “end times” the phrase you so boldly make fun of. It’s coming and you KNOW what will happen. I am not trying to scare you because you know that God is coming for his people. (not a cult a people passionate with hearts fully devoted to him) You think all we do is shove our beliefs down your throats but we are once again doing what God tells us. I don’t know how you say “there is no God” because he is all around. I don’t get how you can ignore the signs. Maybe you have never seen a person who was demon possessed and then got delivered and started living their lives to the fullest for God. But you know that you can’t ignore the demonic and heavenly warfare going on around us. When a demon visibly crawls out of a person and runs because of the power in God’s name you don’t call that a “figment of your imagination.” It has been said many times that we are “brainwashed” people but you need to understand that it is a choice that we make and no one is telling us how to live our lives. God is as real to me as anyone and he is MERCIFUL, LOVING, CARING, and COMING AGAIN because he is FAITHFUL!!! amen to that!!
GOD BLESS YOU!!!
5 May 2006, on 5:15 pm
Okay… Let’s look at the atheism is on the decline thing.
Firstly, this is extremely hard to measure, since atheists and agnostics by their very nature are non-joiners and don’t stand up and scream their beliefs on pulpits.
Secondly, just a glance around the internet and you will find that the people who are claiming this are religious or politically right-wing types.
Thirdly, even if Aquinas is right and atheism is on the decline… Then what is it being replaced with? Superstition, prejudice, hate and holy wars. And this is to be celebrated?
Hey, Aquinas the Homophobe: you do realize that if skepticism and secularism disappear from the face of the earth, you will be living in a new Dark Ages? You and the radical Muslims can slaughter each other for the next thousand years until a New Age of Reason comes along. Meanwhile, have fun with all the plague and poverty and short lifespans you will enjoy as a result of the rejection of science and knowledge.
Even if these fundies could somehow win the ludicrous debate over whether there is a gawd or not, we beat them every time on ethos alone. Aquinas, being a gay basher, loses right off the bat. Any claim toward love or compassion toward humanity is falsified. Secular humanists win… Because we care about people more, period. If we are a dying breed, I would rather die knowing that I tried to save humanity from its own ignorance and hate than to find myself standing on top of the charred remains of all civilization waving a stupid Battlecry flag.
5 May 2006, on 5:19 pm
Hey Jim kinnet, can I have all of your worldly possesions? I mean, since the end times are here, you won’t really be needing it, eh?
And all the rest of you heathens, you just butt out of this. I’ve got dibbs on Jim’s stuff.
Now, like I was saying, Jim, when can we get together and go through your things? Really, just exactly how much liquid cash reserves do you have? You sound kind of young, so, can I talk to your parents too? They’re Christians who are sure of the end-times too, right? Goooood.
And remember, when all the other gentiles around here start talking all-nicey-nice to you, you just remember who your buddy is, ok? Randy! I’m the guy who understands and believes you. I never use that disrespectful “Xians” phrase, it’s so rude, don’t you think?
It’s too late for me, Jimmy. I’m a sinner and I’ll never be saved. At least make my sad, pathetic, worldly life somewhat bearable? You and your parents don’t need any of your sinful worldly possessions since you’re all going to Heaven. Give me a call would ya? Or, have your parents call me. Sure, I’ll take checks, especially those “cash advance” checks they’re always getting from their credit card companies.
As for the rest of you… find your own rube!
5 May 2006, on 5:24 pm
Eve: – And before most xians even come to this passage they have to generally presuppose that 1) such a thing as a “god” exists; 2) nevertheless there is only one of these “god” things; 3) this “god” directly communicated its existence, the nature of its existence, and how to handle its existence to humans; 4) it did so solely and exclusively via the orthodox xian bible which it generated directly through the orthodox biblical writers; 5) parts of this orthodox xian bible are to be interpreted literally, i.e., believed word for word, but not others; and 6) this particular passage is one of the parts that is to be interpreted literally.
- And still there are differences of opinion within xianity about almost every single one of these presuppositions except perhaps # 1.
Aquinas: Please inform me what denomination disagrees with these, and the nature of their disagreement.
First of all, I would appreciate your repaying my courtesy in addressing you by name by extending the same courtesy to me.
Now, in answer to your question: for example, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Their disagreement with Item # 4 is that god also delivered additional scripture – the Book of Mormon – directly to Joseph Smith in 1823 via an angel named Moroni.
I gather you’re not interested in answering my other direct questions to you.
Aquinas: Suckers
“They must not say wrong things about anyone. They must not quarrel. They must be kind and polite to everyone.” -Titus 3:2
Aquinas: The greatest part about this, is I can actually tell you that is what you are doing and you probably won’t even admit it.
Funny; many on this thread have been actually telling *you* what you’re doing and you are definitely not admitting it.
5 May 2006, on 5:34 pm
Jim said:
anyone and he is MERCIFUL, LOVING, CARING, and COMING AGAIN because he is FAITHFUL!!! amen to that!! GOD BLESS YOU!!!
**YAWN**
5 May 2006, on 5:37 pm
haha good one:
Now, like I was saying, Jim, when can we get together and go through your things? Really, just exactly how much liquid cash reserves do you have? You sound kind of young, so, can I talk to your parents too? They’re Christians who are sure of the end-times too, right? Goooood.
~But I think the only things that you’ll be needing in those days are my Bible and God!!
5 May 2006, on 5:38 pm
Oh, and Jim… JOE BLESS YOU, TOO!
I have to wonder if these Xians ever go and listen to the things we link to, or read shit like “Kissing Hank’s Ass.” Do they even know when to laugh? Do they even understand the language being spoken? Or is it like that Far Side cartoon of the woman talking to the dog? “Blah blah blah blah Ginger blah blah blah Ginger blah blah.”
5 May 2006, on 5:41 pm
Randy:
As for the rest of you… find your own rube!
Hahaha!
Jim:
~But I think the only things that you’ll be needing in those days are my Bible and God!!
No, really… It’s too late for us. Just give us your shit. You can keep the Bible, I’ve got one. I keep it on my mythology shelf.
5 May 2006, on 5:41 pm
Jim kinnet: In the Bible when Jesus is speaking about “sending us out” the Great Commission…he was not only talking to the 11 desciples-correction-he was talking to everyone, but at the time talking to the 11 desciples up front.
That is a *human* interpretation of the actual written words. The words are *not* “Jesus said, ‘All you xians, go forth and proselytize.’” The actual written words are:
“Then the *eleven disciples* went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to *them* and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded *you.* And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (NIV)” (my *emphasis*)
As soon as you say, “But these words also mean ___,” you are adding *your human interpretation* to them. And we all agree that humans are imperfect – therefore our interpretations are also imperfect.
As for the “end times,” those same 11 disciples believed they would come before they died. They didn’t, although the disciples died. In the 1800s, Jehovah’s Witnesses thought the end times would come on a certain night; they abandoned their homes and circled their wagons on a hill and waited. In vain. In the 1970s, the “end times are coming” was the clarion call for many jesus freaks, and how many people stockpiled weapons and food because the world was going to end at midnight 01/01/2000?
As for the part about demons, if you’re really serious, then you need professional psychological help. Right now.
And every time you repeat the brainwashed line about god’s mercy, you should click on this link and read the story again.
5 May 2006, on 5:50 pm
Haha “Jesus freaks” actually most of us take that as a compliment because it just shows that we are truly in love with our God. And -correction- I never called you guys poor helpless souls (human interpretation) you guys are very intelligent…but so are we theres just one difference – WE KNOW THE TRUTH!!! Demons are real by the way, you apparently don’t know what your talking about when you say we need psychological help because I have seen a demon possessed person and it wasn’t fake.
5 May 2006, on 6:02 pm
you guys are very intelligent…but so are we theres just one difference – WE KNOW THE TRUTH!!!
Believe me… The differences are bigger than that.
As for your intelligence (or, more appropriately, your sanity):
Demons are real by the way, you apparently don’t know what your talking about when you say we need psychological help because I have seen a demon possessed person and it wasn’t fake.
Run, don’t walk, to the nearest psychiatric ward, Jim.
Then, after you are on your meds for a few months, give this book a try:
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
“The siren song of unreason is not just a cultural wrong but a dangerous plunge into darkness that threatens our most basic freedoms.”
- Carl Sagan
5 May 2006, on 6:05 pm
Jim kinnet: Haha “Jesus freaks” actually most of us take that as a compliment because it just shows that we are truly in love with our God.
Strawman: I didn’t use it as an insult; that was a common slang term used in the ’70s for “born-again xians” (another ’70s term, I think), especially those on college campuses.
Jk: And -correction- I never called you guys poor helpless souls (human interpretation) you guys are very intelligent…
Strawman: I never said you did; I didn’t even use those words.
Jk: but so are we theres just one difference – WE KNOW THE TRUTH!!!
So do the Muslims – and the Buddhists, Wiccans, shamans…
Jk: Demons are real by the way,
I could say so are fairies but OK, prove it scientifically.
Jk: you apparently don’t know what your talking about when you say we need psychological help
I’ve got enough of a background in psychology to argue that point, but I won’t; since I haven’t met, studied, and evaluated you personally, and had my results checked and confirmed by other professionals, I’ll take back that *you* in particular need psychological help.
Jk: because I have seen a demon possessed person and it wasn’t fake.
And I could say I’ve seen the Loch Ness monster and it wasn’t fake, but I’ll bite: go ahead and prove it scientifically.
5 May 2006, on 6:15 pm
Hmm…I will stick with the Bible,and maybe you could read THE HOLY BIBLE and learn about some encounters with demons. It aint myths it’s history,truth,a book of life,and words from the Most High-my God inspired all that was wrote down for us to read. I don’t need meds-you don’t need meds,you need the truth-you know the truth you just choose to ignore it. Jesus loves you he died for YOU. It was God’s free gift to us,his son,we don’t have to do anything to pay God back. It doesn’t depend on how good of a person you are that gets you into heaven in depends on if you have asked God into your heart,and live for him!That is my words to you and that is what I am living for. My life will not be wasted lying about what other people think, it will be a life full of love and passion towards my God and the people who don’t know him. I love you and tell you that God Loves you a million times over!! Because it is the TRUTH God bless you and my he bless your children and friends!
5 May 2006, on 6:43 pm
you know the truth you just choose to ignore it.
BZZZZT!! Wrong. Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change?
This is one of the oldest (and lamest) of all theist arguments to atheists. It is completely without merit and utterly unprovable. You cannot tell me what you know I know.
It doesn’t depend on how good of a person you are that gets you into heaven in depends on if you have asked God into your heart,and live for him!
Oh, cool. Then Ted Bundy is in heaven because he spent his last night with James Dobson?
5 May 2006, on 6:45 pm
Your Sarcasm and false beliefs are the only thing you have going for you and let me tell you, you won’t get that far. What do you believe that we came from monkeys, a giant egg/explosion, or just appeared-lol- no really where do you think we go when we die-do we turn into some fog or sumthin??
5 May 2006, on 7:19 pm
Hey Jim, have you talked to your parents about their checking accounts yet? I’m worried that your soul will be sullied by your material goods when the *end times* come. Wait! What’s that noise! I think .. I hear… horsemen a comin’! Quick Jim, tell your parents to call me!
Hey… yeah… where *DO* we go when we die, anyway? Is that what the movie “The Fog” was all about? Dead Christians? That’d be cool to be Fog.
5 May 2006, on 7:25 pm
haha you make me laugh…keep it up and you won’t be able to hear the trumpet calling and Jesus coming back for his people. we go to heaven and yes there is a hell. sry but I am only speakin the truth. ~JESUS LOVES YOU!!~
5 May 2006, on 7:27 pm
What do you believe that we came from monkeys?
The educational system has utterly failed you. You have my deepest sympathies.
However, it is not too late to educate yourself.
Either that, or you’ll still be serving me my fries in 20 years.
5 May 2006, on 7:28 pm
Are you threatening me with hell if I don’t believe what you believe, Jim?
Sorry, I don’t negotiate with terrorists.
5 May 2006, on 7:30 pm
Hey, Randy… Wanna team up with me at the next Battlecry rally and work the crowd for Left Behind stuff? We could get rich! Yeah, I know you came up with the idea first, but everybody needs a partner. Pleeease?
5 May 2006, on 7:31 pm
# Jim kinnet Says:
May 5th, 2006 at 7:25 pm e
~JESUS LOVES YOU!!~
This may be true… But I hate to break it to you, Jim… He thinks you’re an asshole.
5 May 2006, on 7:39 pm
Nope he loves me and he loves you…you can use your obscene lyrics against me but they are just words. I doubt on that day you’ll be happy to get loot you’ll probabley be shaking with regret. I aint condemning you and thats what you guys call it i am voicen TRUTH. God Loves You!!! he always will
5 May 2006, on 7:48 pm
Jim kinnet: Hmm…I will stick with the Bible,and maybe you could read THE HOLY BIBLE
Please don’t shout; have I raised my voice to you? And which bible (i.e., version, e.g., King James, etc.)?
Jk: and learn about some encounters with demons.
I also saw a movie about an encounter with a demon – The Exorcist. Doesn’t automatically mean that demons exist.
Jk: It aint myths it’s history,truth,
Like what, demons? Again, prove it scientifically.
Jk: a book of life,and words from the Most High-my God inspired all that was wrote down for us to read.
Then why does he contradict himself in it?
Jk: I don’t need meds-
I didn’t say you did.
Jk: you don’t need meds,
Thanks but actually, I do, and so do you – or are you going to claim that you don’t take an aspirin when you have a headache, or Nyquil when you’ve got a cold?
Jk: you need the truth-
Absolutely; totally agree.
Jk: you know the truth you just choose to ignore it. Jesus loves you he died for YOU.
And not for YOU? Seriously, though, his existence as an actual historical figure is very strongly debated; you should check out the scholarship on it some time. Very interesting…
Jk: It was God’s free gift to us,his son,we don’t have to do anything to pay God back.
It’s a nice concept so far…
Jk: It doesn’t depend on how good of a person you are that gets you into heaven in depends on if you have asked God into your heart,and live for him!
Wait a minute; you just said that “we don’t have to do anything to pay god back.” Now suddenly there are conditions? With a “free gift?”
Jk: That is my words to you and that is what I am living for. My life will not be wasted lying about what other people think, it will be a life full of love and passion towards my God and the people who don’t know him.
Well, good for you; that sounds like a positive outlook on life.
Jk: I love you and tell you that God Loves you a million times over!! Because it is the TRUTH
Then why does he do things like this?
Jk: God bless you and my he bless your children and friends!
And why does god have to be a “he?” Why can’t he be female, or Other?
5 May 2006, on 8:13 pm
Aquinas: “Its is not a no true schotts man, if it is, then how about you answer my previous question of what is the fallacy in saying no true circle has three congruent angles?”
Circles don’t have angles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle
You’re making claims on what makes someone a True Christian (TM). A circle is a mathematically defined shape. Christianity is a set of disputed beliefs centered around this guy:
http://www.gamerevolution.com/oldsite/blogpics/jesus_zoidberg.jpg
There’s no connection to your point about a circle and about jizzus crust.
5 May 2006, on 8:21 pm
you can use your obscene lyrics
Lyrics? What lyrics? Was somebody serenading Jimbo?
JIM, I LOVE YOU, YOU’RE GONNA SUFFER. GOD LOVES YOU. AND YOU WILL SUFFER.
I’M NOT CONDEMNING YOU. NOW ENJOY SUFFERING!
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST YOU HAVING YOUR BELIEFS. I AM SORRY YOU WILL SUFFER FOR THEM, THOUGH!
Do you notice the schizophrenia in your own language?
Will you raise children this way someday?
“I love you. Do you love, Daddy?” SMACK
“Waaaahhhh!!!”
“Why are you crying? I love you with all my heart!” PUNCH!
“Waaaahhhh!!!”
“Tell Daddy how much you love him, too!” KICK!
5 May 2006, on 8:23 pm
Eve said:
Jk: It was God’s free gift to us,his son,we don’t have to do anything to pay God back.
It’s a nice concept so far…
Jk: It doesn’t depend on how good of a person you are that gets you into heaven in depends on if you have asked God into your heart,and live for him!
Wait a minute; you just said that “we don’t have to do anything to pay god back.” Now suddenly there are conditions? With a “free gift?”
Nice.
5 May 2006, on 8:25 pm
The only thing wrong with the 4% Evangelical number they are scared of is that it is 4% too many delusional idiots walking America.
5 May 2006, on 8:28 pm
The bible also said that us Christians (or xians as you call us) will be persecuted for the sake of his name.
These xians LIVE to be PERSECUTED. How “stoic” they are to stand up for their imaginary sky daddy.
haha you make me laugh…keep it up and you won’t be able to hear the trumpet calling and Jesus coming back for his people. we go to heaven and yes there is a hell. sry but I am only speakin the truth.
Jim K – who talks like this…really? Either brainwashed sheeple, or a troll trying to rile us up and just playing with us.
Demons are real by the way, you apparently don’t know what your talking about when you say we need psychological help because I have seen a demon possessed person and it wasn’t fake.
This creeps me out that we have people running around who believe in demons. These are the people who feel compelled to kill their children when they hallucinate that they are possessed by devils, or gawd told them to kill their child, etc.
I have a girlfriend for Jim Kinnet
http://yourgoingtohell.com/ogla.html
5 May 2006, on 8:28 pm
If God is really worried about the numbers, why does he have Evangelicals stating the Earth is Young and that evolution is crap when the only evidence on this planet is that the earth is ancient, and that evolution is fact?
God can’t possibly be worried about the number of morons who follow him.
5 May 2006, on 8:31 pm
I aint condemning you and thats what you guys call it i am voicen TRUTH.
Am I sensing a fake xian troller?
5 May 2006, on 8:32 pm
I think he’s probably real and young and came from Battlecrybaby.com.
5 May 2006, on 8:34 pm
The Atheist Jew: If God is really worried about the numbers, why does he have Evangelicals stating the Earth is Young and that evolution is crap when the only evidence on this planet is that the earth is ancient, and that evolution is fact?
Because he works in mysterious ways.
5 May 2006, on 8:38 pm
The only thing wrong with the 4% Evangelical number they are scared of is that it is 4% too many delusional idiots walking America.
TAJ – Isn’t it scary to think that so many delusional schizophrenic people are running around seeing demons and crap? I am SO glad I live in Chicagoland. These people give me the shivers…Children of the Corn shivers!
(I am doubting though that JK here is a real xian…I am sensing a bored kid who is just playing around with us.)
5 May 2006, on 8:39 pm
Oh, dear, Star; shades of eharmony.com!
5 May 2006, on 8:41 pm
Eve – maybe we can start a sideline on here as an xian dating service…we can call it “Find Your Loonie Lover”
5 May 2006, on 8:43 pm
I aint condemning you and thats what you guys call it i am voicen TRUTH.
Is this the same guy who had the Amish Children of the Corn sounding dialogue on another thread?
5 May 2006, on 8:44 pm
*lol* Star! Any True Christian (I can’t find how to do the trademark sign, darn it!) would snap Olga right up.
5 May 2006, on 8:47 pm
Eve – They can “watch the glass move for 4-5 hours” together while “Oh how the fire crackles!”
5 May 2006, on 8:47 pm
Eve – Think Olga would be “hot” for Jim K???
5 May 2006, on 8:50 pm
Olga and Jim K’s love song
“I’m so hot for him, I’m so hot for him, I’m so hot for him, but he’s so cold!”
5 May 2006, on 8:51 pm
Star said: “They can “watch the glass move for 4-5 hours” together while “Oh how the fire crackles!””
Sounds like a romantic night to me. Next time the Queen and I need to spice up our love life, we’ll try that.
5 May 2006, on 8:57 pm
*giggles* Star, you are having *way* too much fun with this!
I’m wondering about Olga’s sex life; she said she still felt pain in her body after her trip to the edge of hell. Maybe no-touchee anymore for her – and Jim won’t go for that, I’m sure.
He’s the guy with the Children of the Corn dialogue on *this* thread – unless there’s somewhere else I’ve missed?
And about watching the glass move: the only way I’d start to be impressed with a Ouija board is if everyone sat away from it, didn’t touch it with anything, and the planchette started to move on its own. Even then, I’d suspect “foul play” and begin my detective work into how it coulda been done.
5 May 2006, on 9:05 pm
You write the trademark symbol like this:
& trade ;
But make sure there are no spaces between those three things. And voilà:
™
5 May 2006, on 9:15 pm
Sean, you’re on. I’m too honest to take more than 50% of the loot. So, should we tag-team them, or work the crowd separately. I think we should start out as good-cop, bad-cop until we figure out what works with the Parents. Do you think we could get power-of-attorney for these guys?
I can see it now:
Randy & Sean, LLP: “You honor, we have here a signed power-of-attorney for Joe Theist’s estate. We have contributed the entire estate to R&S LLP for use in exterminating the scourage of Cat Juggling (with appropriate salaries for ourselves).”
Distraught Theist’s Relatives: “But YOUR HONOR! These men obviously used our father’s beliefs to get him to sign this document!”
R&S: “We also have here signed testimony from our staff Psychologist, Eve, who examined Mr. Theist and swears to his sound-mind at the time of the execution of this document.”
DTR: “But YOUR HONOR! Our father was obviously delusional with his belief in The Rapture! He thought he would rise to Heaven with all believers!”
R&S: “We have also taken the liberty of getting testimony from a Mr. Ron Luce, founder of TeenMania.Com stating that Mr. Theist and his relatives here are all True Christians ™ and subscribe to the belief in the End Times.”
DTR: “But YOUR HONOR…”
The Judge: “It is appearent that the Theist Family are True Christians ™ and believe in the The Rapture, as do I. Therefore, I not only hereby grant the entire estate of Mr. Theist to Randy & Sean LLP for their worthy pursuit of the end of Cat Juggling, but I also grant them Power-of-Attorney for the Theist Children’s estates as well.”
S&R: “Thank you, your honor.”
Woot!
5 May 2006, on 9:17 pm
Oh, and you can just put the two letters tm inside parenthesis. That’s what I’ve been doing. I suppose you can call that the Randy! Method ™
5 May 2006, on 9:25 pm
Thanks a bunch, guys.
5 May 2006, on 9:34 pm
Just testing True Christian&trade:
5 May 2006, on 9:35 pm
oops True Christian™
5 May 2006, on 9:35 pm
cool™
6 May 2006, on 10:09 am
lol…you guys take our words and change them into somthing you want to hear
6 May 2006, on 10:26 am
“Young people believe there is no such thing as moral truth.” (Yet those that would brainwash them believe that they are the only morality anyone needs.)
lol we all are in need but by moral truth they mean man’s truth, what man’s truth is sexuallty, rape is ok, cheating is fine
“90% of anyone who receives Christ does so before they are 20 years old.” (Gee, I wonder why. “After young minds have matured and can think for themselves, bullshit like ours barely has any effect!”)
lol nope again your wrong, 20 years have been filled with the worlds truth and they think they know it all but they dont
“At the present rate of evangelism among the youth, there will only be about four percent who will become evangelical Christians.” (The rest will be too busy surviving as the fry guy at the local MickeyDee’s cuz they couldn’t get into college thanks to the fact that they graduated high school thinking evolution was fiction.)
this means that the rate of ppl beliving in christ is going down fast
“65% say there is no way to tell which religion is true.” (Even more disturbing, less than one percent laughed in the poller’s face when asked this ludicrous question.)
christianty isn’t a religion-its a RELATIONSHIP!!
“We’re gonna live in a country that basically is not Christian.” (If only your bullshit was true, I would rejoice.)
it is true look all around you the american goverment…thats why we are taking a stand
“We only have 5-7 years to reach these young people before their hearts are hard.” (Again, we’re not intolerant. It’s just that if you don’t believe what we believe, you’re immoral.)
not really…we just tell you what we belive…its up to you if you will accept jesus christ or not
“God can CAPTURE their heart.” (Notice the hunting and trapping rhetoric. Go, teenagers! Run into the arms of your future slave masters!)
lol once again spirtual warfare…the only way to protect your self from the devil is by accepting jesus…and once you do(if you do) then your life will be changed for ever
“All of us need to SEIZE each and every opportunity before us to CAPTURE this generation for Jesus Christ.” (Ditto.)
lol your taking it into mans eyes….what we mean by ’seize’ is giving you the chance to accept jesus into your life…we want everyone here to go to heaven
“There is a war to be won, and you are part of that war.” (But of course. It wouldn’t be Christian if it didn’t involve a fucking WAR.)
once again spirtual warfare..its everywhere on this world and in your heart
“We need to have a Battle Cry strategy.” (Continued appeal to lower brain functions: come on kids, don’t join the Crips or the Bloods. Come fight with our vicious gang of moralists instead.)
lol what this means is ‘what are we going to do to save everyone?’
“You’re part of this massive ARMY that’s come together to take back your generation.” (Secularists: should we start arming ourselves in self defense now?)
lol this is talking about how we should come together and save this generation not take it back by force
And check it out, kids… Although we condemn the marketing that strips you of your soul every day, we only charge $1.99 for BatteCry cell phone wallpaper. Collect them all!
ok…what does this have to do with anything?
6 May 2006, on 12:57 pm
bigt said: “lol…you guys take our words and change them into somthing (sic) you want to hear.”
Actually, looking at your point by point response, that’s exactly what you’re doing. Let me give you some examples.
“You’re part of this massive ARMY that’s come together to take back your generation.” (Secularists: should we start arming ourselves in self defense now?)
lol this is talking about how we should come together and save this generation not take it back by force
See, what’s going on here is that Battlecry’s rhetoric is being exposed and since it’s not coming out favorably, you’re putting a whole new spin on it.
“See, even though it says ‘massive army’ and that we’re to ‘take back your generation’ it doesn’t mean that we’re a massive army or that we’re trying to take back anything. What gave you that impression, just because we said it? No it really means we’re trying to save people. We couldn’t have made it any clearer. You should stop twisting our words by taking them at face value.”
Or maybe this one can help you see what you’re doing:
“All of us need to SEIZE each and every opportunity before us to CAPTURE this generation for Jesus Christ.” (Ditto.)
lol your taking it into mans eyes….what we mean by ’seize’ is giving you the chance to accept jesus into your life…we want everyone here to go to heaven.
“Now when we say seize, we really mean we’re giving you something. Now I know seize means to forcibly take something but when we say ’seize’ we mean ‘give.’ I still don’t understand why you can’t understand that. What’s so hard about seeing our message as the exact opposite of what we’re saying? Jizzus can teach you to read a completely different meaning into what is actually being said.”
bigt, do you realize how stupid your arguments sounds. Do you expect us to believe that the aims of your brainwashing outfit are actually the opposite of their stated claims or have your brains just been too scrambled through fundie home-schooling, xian drivel, praise music, and too much military rhetoric in the guise of your “relationship” with jizzus?
6 May 2006, on 1:00 pm
Man, I don’t know what happened to you but it’s not about brainwashing or anything like that. It’s about loving God. You must have had some bad experiences with Christians and I’m sorry for that I’ll be praying for you all.
6 May 2006, on 1:28 pm
BigT: at last a Battlecryer who addresses my original post point-by-point. I’m glad you did this, because it will give me an opportunity to write more about the rhetorical approach of your organization’s propaganda machine.
I’m off to enjoy a day of fun in the sun with my sweetie… I’ll enjoy responding to you later today. And thanks again for being the one to at least try to — after 150 comments — respond point-by-point.
6 May 2006, on 3:26 pm
You don’t need to beleive in GOD becuase he beleives in you. May he show you the truth, as he did me. If i was the man i used to be, i would have attacked you, but, i’m not any more. May GOD bless you.
Your brother in christ
~ Lordsthunder
6 May 2006, on 4:29 pm
king rtard you never will know what we are talking about untill one thing happens. and whos this “jizzus” anyway? and your right about us being brainwashed with the blood of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, cleanse my mind and wash my brain from the sins that i see and face every day.
6 May 2006, on 9:59 pm
Lardsthunda,
You don’t need to beleive in GOD becuase he beleives in you. May he show you the truth, as he did me. If i was the man i used to be, i would have attacked you, but, i’m not any more. May GOD bless you.
Sounds like a veiled threat to me- say hello to the FBI when they show up at your door (I reported you an hour ago for threatening violence against us). Furthermore, you should have asked gawd for either half a rational thought or the MLA Handbook and a dictionary.
Your brother in genetic similarities,
~ Marcus
PS: Your name certainly has a facist ring to it… Hmmmmmmm……..
6 May 2006, on 10:01 pm
Bigt, I’ll do without the Carrie-style bloodbath, thanks. Who’s jizzus you ask? I posted a link to a picture of him earlier, but here you go:
http://www.gamerevolution.com/oldsite/blogpics/jesus_zoidberg.jpg
Of course, you didn’t address any of my main points, namely, your use of Orwellian double-speak. Maybe you can explain why you say one thing but expect us to understand it as something completely different. Also, why the fascination with blood? Are you a gothic, vampire type?
6 May 2006, on 10:05 pm
lemme ask you all( you dont have to answer if you dont want to) why do you hate god?
6 May 2006, on 10:06 pm
Loadsblunder, I beleive in you since you typed me a message. Thanks for letting me know I don’t need to believe in gawd, but I’m already a step ahead of you in that department. And thanks for restraining yourself from attacking me. I could never have withstood… THE THUNDER!!!
6 May 2006, on 10:08 pm
becuase your points are completely useless they really mean nothing to me you want me to answer? lol
and the reason why i mention jesus blood is becuase he shed it for the world…and its only by beliving that jesus died on the cross for your sins may your truely belive
6 May 2006, on 10:13 pm
“lemme ask you all( you dont have to answer if you dont want to) why do you hate god?”
When I was younger, I was a lot smaller. I guess you could say I was your typical 98 lb. weakling. Anyway, I had a cute girlfriend (we’re talking high school here) and we used to go to the beach a lot. Now like I said, I was pretty scrawny then. Anyhow, me and “Susie” (we’ll call her that for the sake of anonymity) were hanging out at the beach when God approached us. He was this big tan muscular guy who was always picking on people. Well, to make a long story short, he kicked sand in my face, stole my girlfriend and told me that he was “King of the Beach.”
So I was sitting around for a few days feeling sad and embarrassed. I mean, God humiliated me and stole my girlfriend. But what could I do? He was so strong and I was just this scrawny nerd. With no options presenting themselves, I decided to read some comic books. Well, there was this ad in the back from Charles Atlas, explaining how he had become the world’s most perfectly defined man by using “Dynamic Tension (TM).” I clipped out the ad, sent in my $2.50, waited 6-8 weeks, got the Atlas Training Manual, started working out and went from a zero to a hero. Well, you better believe after acheiving my new physique, I marched right back to the beach, beat God up, got “Susie” back, kicked sand in His face, and was proclaimed the “New King of the Beach.” And that is why I hate God.
6 May 2006, on 10:15 pm
have you guys ever wondered what will happen after you die?
6 May 2006, on 10:16 pm
“becuase your points are completely useless they really mean nothing to me you want me to answer? lol”
Not if you understood even the basics of constructing an argument. Each of your responses to Sean’s points were basically “well even though we said A, we meant B.” I point that out and you tell me my points are useless. Try studying some formal logic and classical rhetoric.
6 May 2006, on 10:17 pm
“have you guys ever wondered what will happen after you die?”
I’ll cease to exist. That’s it. Resorting to the fear of death trick now, huh?
6 May 2006, on 10:18 pm
how do you know it was god…it sounds like to me that its just another bully there are tons of those
6 May 2006, on 10:19 pm
He told me He was God. Besides, he was really tan.
6 May 2006, on 10:20 pm
no actually you wont…maybe in a worldly sense yes but in a spirtual sense no
6 May 2006, on 10:21 pm
ya well guess what…im bush you gunna belive that?
6 May 2006, on 10:23 pm
You’ll cease to exist too, but unlike you, I’m aware of that and I actually try to make the world a better place instead of wasting my time dedicating my life to fairy tales and trying to scare gullible saps into believing like me so I won’t feel as scared of the dark.
6 May 2006, on 10:23 pm
Not if you understood even the basics of constructing an argument. Each of your responses to Sean’s points were basically “well even though we said A, we meant B.” I point that out and you tell me my points are useless. Try studying some formal logic and classical rhetoric.
im not here to start an argument im here to stand for god
6 May 2006, on 10:24 pm
“ya well guess what…im bush you gunna belive that?”
You’re intellectual prowess, spelling and grammar skills, and ability to form a convincing argument are about as poorly developed as his, so sure, why the hell not? How’s it going, Dubya?
6 May 2006, on 10:26 pm
You’ll cease to exist too, but unlike you, I’m aware of that and I actually try to make the world a better place instead of wasting my time dedicating my life to fairy tales and trying to scare gullible saps into believing like me so I won’t feel as scared of the dark.
i do try to make a world a better place… and scared gullible ppl? lol hardly i know ppl who thought just like you but yet still saw the truth… and scared of the dark? hardly im in a dark place now i can be on battlecry or here and i chose here
6 May 2006, on 10:28 pm
“im not here to start an argument im here to stand for god”
Liar. back in post #149 you attempted to refute each claim, point by point. How is that not trying to start an argument? Doesn’t your god not want you to lie?
6 May 2006, on 10:28 pm
wow you truly are gullible..but yet not in your religon why is that?
6 May 2006, on 10:31 pm
Liar. back in post #149 you attempted to refute each claim, point by point. How is that not trying to start an argument? Doesn’t your god not want you to lie?
like i said im taking a stand not here to start and argument…you guys here are all cooped up in your comfort zone…i like it when ppl question my faith dont you?
6 May 2006, on 10:33 pm
and im not lying… you want me to lie so you have somthing aginst me
6 May 2006, on 10:33 pm
“wow you truly are gullible..but yet not in your religon why is that?”
Two problems with that statement:
1) You claim that I’m gullible yet offer no proof for said claim of gullibility.
2) You assume that I have a religion. I have no religion nor do I believe an any supernatural beings. You see, being an atheist means I hold no religious beliefs, not that I simply reject god. How could I reject a god I don’t believe exists?
Finally, what are you referring to when you ask “why is that?” Are you asking why I’m not gullible in terms or religion and are you suggesting that the proper state of mind for a religious person is to be gullible? I’d like to answer your question, but I’ll need it to be rephrased in such a way that it makes sense.
6 May 2006, on 10:37 pm
“i like it when ppl question my faith dont you?”
If by “faith” you mean believing in something inspite of a total lack of any verifiable, testable evidence, then it’s fair to say that I have absolutely no faith. I think you do want your faith questioned. I’ll bet deep down inside, you know you’re living a lie. It’s ok, let go and start living!
6 May 2006, on 10:38 pm
Check it out Sean, this thread was at 150 when you left. Now look at us! How was your evening?
6 May 2006, on 10:40 pm
You assume that I have a religion. I have no religion nor do I believe an any supernatural beings. You see, being an atheist means I hold no religious beliefs, not that I simply reject god. How could I reject a god I don’t believe exists?
ok yes you are right in this area and i am very sorry for saying and what i mean by why is that is why dont you give me a good reason why not to belive in god??
6 May 2006, on 10:40 pm
You assume that I have a religion. I have no religion nor do I believe an any supernatural beings. You see, being an atheist means I hold no religious beliefs, not that I simply reject god. How could I reject a god I don’t believe exists?
ok yes you are right in this area and i am very sorry for saying that and what i mean by why is that is why dont you give me a good reason why not to belive in god??
6 May 2006, on 10:43 pm
Check it out Sean, this thread was at 150 when you left. Now look at us! How was your evening?
if you want me to leave then i will just say the words
6 May 2006, on 10:50 pm
“ok yes you are right in this area and i am very sorry for saying that and what i mean by why is that is why dont you give me a good reason why not to belive in god??”
1) Scientific research has time and again disproven claims made by religious texts and authorites (e.g., the age of the planet, the impossibility of and the total lack of evidence for the biblical flood, just to name a couple).
2) The god described in the bible, is an angry, vengeful prick who we are supposed to accept as all good, all powerful, and infallible. Basically, like the description of God, the book that we are supposed to take as clear evidence of the existence of God is riddled with fallacies, misinformation, and contradictions.
3) I have never seen any proof to support the existence of God. Why should I believe in an entity when I have zero proof whatsoever for its existence.
4) The claim that God exists is a positive statement that needs to be proven. Therefore, the burden of proof is on those who would claim that God exists. By stating “I do not believe in God,” I’m refuting a claim (God exists) for which no verifiable evidence has been given.
5) No creditable, independent texts have ever supported key events in the bible (e.g. any of the events surrounding jebus’s death and resurrection), or have even mentioned the existence of a Jesus of Nazareth (and yes, we’re all familiar with Josephus which has been roundly discredited).
6 May 2006, on 10:53 pm
“if you want me to leave then i will just say the words”
Huh?
6 May 2006, on 11:03 pm
“ok yes you are right in this area and i am very sorry for saying that and what i mean by why is that is why dont you give me a good reason why not to belive in god??”
1) Scientific research has time and again disproven claims made by religious texts and authorites (e.g., the age of the planet, the impossibility of and the total lack of evidence for the biblical flood, just to name a couple).
2) The god described in the bible, is an angry, vengeful prick who we are supposed to accept as all good, all powerful, and infallible. Basically, like the description of God, the book that we are supposed to take as clear evidence of the existence of God is riddled with fallacies, misinformation, and contradictions.
3) I have never seen any proof to support the existence of God. Why should I believe in an entity when I have zero proof whatsoever for its existence.
4) The claim that God exists is a positive statement that needs to be proven. Therefore, the burden of proof is on those who would claim that God exists. By stating “I do not believe in God,” I’m refuting a claim (God exists) for which no verifiable evidence has been given.
5) No creditable, independent texts have ever supported key events in the bible (e.g. any of the events surrounding jebus’s death and resurrection), or have even mentioned the existence of a Jesus of Nazareth (and yes, we’re all familiar with Josephus which has been roundly discredited).
ok then why did they find the orginal manusrpits of the bible near the red sea…and why did they find the orginal making of solomon temple which was dystroyed by god when jesus died.
and just remember this
1. the earth will have more disasters then it ever had
2. someone will declare world peace
3. solomons temple will be rebuilt and the anti-christ will stand in it and claim that he is christ
these are some signs that jesus will come i challange you to do alittle research on it
and if you want me to leave then just say so “Check it out Sean, this thread was at 150 when you left. Now look at us! How was your evening?”
6 May 2006, on 11:03 pm
I thought atheists opposed all religions, not just Christianity. What did God do to you to make you fight so hard against him? And why don’t you say his name right? It’s GOD not gawd. And it’s Christian, not xian. This site even shows extra hatred of God. After all, it’s called God is for suckers. Why not Buddha is for suckers or Religion is for suckers? Why all the hate?
Now please piss on my face for my blatant violation of the commenting policy.
6 May 2006, on 11:15 pm
“ok then why did they find the orginal manusrpits of the bible near the red sea…and why did they find the orginal making of solomon temple which was dystroyed by god when jesus died.”
I never claimed the bible wasn’t written nor did I claim that it wasn’t written in that part of the world. As far as the temple, I never said that the authors of the bible weren’t incorporating local landmarks into their texts. Troy has also been discovered in Turkey. Does that prove the Iliad is true?
Furthermore, how do vague predictions become proof?
6 May 2006, on 11:31 pm
those vague predictions are coming true…look around you and i g2g ill talk to you tommorrow 3pm? sound good if it doesnt then e-mail me at big_t2009@hotmail.com
6 May 2006, on 11:37 pm
Okay, BigT, thanks for playing. I would first like to respond to your point-by-point arguments, and then I have a few things further to say about BattleCry as a political organization (sorry I haven’t been CamelCasing the name until now… that does an injustice to the marketing skills of those who created it to appeal to a certain young and “hip” demographic) .
“Young people believe there is no such thing as moral truth.” (Yet those that would brainwash them believe that they are the only morality anyone needs.)
lol we all are in need but by moral truth they mean man’s truth, what man’s truth is sexuallty, rape is ok, cheating is fine
Okay, I think what you are trying to say in this broken sentence is that there is “man’s truth” vs. “God’s truth.” That’s pretty rhetorically common among religious fundamentalists, so I am going to go with it. The basic premise is that there is absolute moral truth, as dictated by God, and then “moral relativism”, which is what humans practice. Those that go astray on the path of moral relativism have rejected God’s absolute truth, correct? Well, we could spend hours discussing moral relativism just within human culture without even bringing an imaginary deity into it.
But let’s play it by your rules. You believe this deity exists and has laid down the laws for all of us to live by. Why then, if this deity represents some moral absolutism (defined, we know not where — since the Bible is one big bundle of contradictions) has he chosen to speak through the mouths of those that historically have pillaged and murdered in his name? The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, The Salem Witch Trials, the numerous witch trials and pogroms across Europe throughout the past several thousand years. We won’t even go into the crimes committed by the other Abrahamic religions. Why does this moral absolutist God of yours let people run amok and kill so many in his name?
If your answer is that those people were twisting God’s word, and that they were gone astray from God’s absolute moral truth, then I ask you this: how do you know that you are right in your rallying “battlecry”? Have you thought about the fact that you might be following in the same footsteps of these hateful twisters of God’s word? Does it occur to you that you, as a flawed human, are taking what you believe to be an absolute truth and applying it to relativistic circumstances? The Ten Commandments say nothing about homosexuality, yet you are up in arms about the idea that gay people in modern America, a place that the primitive tribe of Moses could never even imagine, are asking to be treated as human beings, just like you. You have re-imagined your religion to apply to the social, cultural, historical and personal circumstances you live in. That is moral relativism. Unfortunately, rather than adapting to current mores and seeking to love humanity in its current state, you choose to dredge up ancient texts and apply them in ways they were never meant to be applied, leading to intolerance and prejudice against those who would preferto simply live their lives — and who mean you no harm.
Also, your statement “what man’s truth is sexuallty, rape is ok, cheating is fine.” I don’t completely follow this, but I go back to my original interpretation, which is that you are trying to say that humans have constructed a corrupt world beyond the “rule of God” that allow sins such as sexuality, rape and cheating. Let’s take on those sins one by one.
1. Sexuality. This is not a bad thing. I am saddened that you believe it is, and I hope you will one day free yourself of that useless and self-destructive shame. What is far more dangerous is keeping young people ignorant of sexuality. This has been proven time and again. Preaching pure abstinence to a horny teenager is a ludicrous, losing concept that will simply create more problems than it solves. Case in point. Condoms are the way, as we have known for decades.
2. Rape. What the hell does this have to do with secularism? Are only atheist girls raped? Are you suggesting that a girl who dresses in revealing clothing is asking to be raped? We have heard that disturbing argument before. Frankly, it is sick.
3. Cheating. I have no idea what this means. Maybe I am a moral relativist, but I need some clarification. I do know, however, that the highest divorce rates in this country are actually in the states that have the largest number of self-righteous Xian moralists. Don’t believe me? Check it out. Gawd does not seem to be helping those bibble-thumping states deal with the issue of OPP.
“90% of anyone who receives Christ does so before they are 20 years old.” (Gee, I wonder why. “After young minds have matured and can think for themselves, bullshit like ours barely has any effect!”)
lol nope again your wrong, 20 years have been filled with the worlds truth and they think they know it all but they dont
What is the “world’s truth”? Again, do you have an absolute moral manual somewhere? Oh, yeah, the Bible… So morally inconsistent (”Abraham, kill your son and I will love you”) that even your finest theologians are still scratching their heads trying to figure it out. Address my point: they are saying that after 20 they can’t assimilate you as easily. And that’s NOT the tactics of a cult?
“At the present rate of evangelism among the youth, there will only be about four percent who will become evangelical Christians.” (The rest will be too busy surviving as the fry guy at the local MickeyDee’s cuz they couldn’t get into college thanks to the fact that they graduated high school thinking evolution was fiction.)
this means that the rate of ppl beliving in christ is going down fast
Very astute of you, genius. I get that. What I am saying is that if you throw in with people who deny things like, oh — evolution — you are going to be pumping my gas (if there is any gas left) for the rest of your life. Don’t embrace ignorance. Seek knowledge. Please, I beg you. So you can one day feed your own children.
“65% say there is no way to tell which religion is true.” (Even more disturbing, less than one percent laughed in the poller’s face when asked this ludicrous question.)
christianty isn’t a religion-its a RELATIONSHIP!!
No, you idiot. It’s a religion. Up is not down and black is not white, no matter how much you SHOUT IT!! It’s a fuckin’ religion. Deal with it.
“We’re gonna live in a country that basically is not Christian.” (If only your bullshit was true, I would rejoice.)
it is true look all around you the american goverment…thats why we are taking a stand
What for fuck’s sake are you talking about? Xianity has taken over all three branches of our government. If you don’t know this, you are woefully ignorant of current American politics. But I like the fact that you don’t trust the government. Now if you can just take that same skepticism and apply it to your slavemaster Ron Luce, you might be on to something.
“We only have 5-7 years to reach these young people before their hearts are hard.” (Again, we’re not intolerant. It’s just that if you don’t believe what we believe, you’re immoral.)
not really…we just tell you what we belive…its up to you if you will accept jesus christ or not
No. They said their hearts would become hard if they did not accept Christ. If you don’t see the moralizing in this, that’s because you are a self-righteous moralist yourself. My heart is not hard. The hearts of my family and many of my friends are not hard. We are loving, caring, passionate, expressive people who love life. Many of us, however, utterly reject your make-believe ideas. And you have the gall to say that anyone who does not believe what you believe has a hard heart? Do you see how offensive that is? Of course you don’t.
“God can CAPTURE their heart.” (Notice the hunting and trapping rhetoric. Go, teenagers! Run into the arms of your future slave masters!)
lol once again spirtual warfare…the only way to protect your self from the devil is by accepting jesus…and once you do(if you do) then your life will be changed for ever
You just used the word “warfare” without any irony. And you are claiming that you are not militants. It breaks my heart that you believe in this cartoon concept known as the “devil.” That’s like believing in the Blue Fairy. It’s just plain sad.
“All of us need to SEIZE each and every opportunity before us to CAPTURE this generation for Jesus Christ.” (Ditto.)
lol your taking it into mans eyes….what we mean by ’seize’ is giving you the chance to accept jesus into your life…we want everyone here to go to heaven
Your LOLs are starting to piss me off, punk. You’ll laugh when I say you can. Just kidding. Sort of.
And no. You really don’t want everyone here to go to heaven. Don’t lie, moralist. Otherwise there would be no conditions. We would all just get to go. Instead, you believe in an unjust deity who picks and chooses who he wants to receive eternal salvation based on his own arbitrary whims. We non-believers always say this: if your gawd did exist, he would have to be one twisted, needy, selfish, brutally cruel, overgrown little boy… In constant need of worship and attention, lest he wish you into the cornfield.
“There is a war to be won, and you are part of that war.” (But of course. It wouldn’t be Christian if it didn’t involve a fucking WAR.)
once again spirtual warfare..its everywhere on this world and in your heart
Why can’t you embrace humanism and leave your imaginary sky daddy where he belongs, in private life? How about “warfare” based on real humanist values instead of the arbitrary cruelty of the gawd of the bibble? He is wrathful, vengeful, incomprehensible, narcissistic and violent in the extreme, just to name a few character flaws. And he comes from backwards ideas laid down by a primitive people. Why would you throw in with that crowd?
“We need to have a Battle Cry strategy.” (Continued appeal to lower brain functions: come on kids, don’t join the Crips or the Bloods. Come fight with our vicious gang of moralists instead.)
lol what this means is ‘what are we going to do to save everyone?’
What was funny there, doughboy? What are you going to do to save everyone? What if we don’t want to be “saved”, because we believe you are full of shit, and that your way lies real damnation for humanity. The damnation of hate, superstition, rejection of science, etc.
You know, The Dark Ages.
“You’re part of this massive ARMY that’s come together to take back your generation.” (Secularists: should we start arming ourselves in self defense now?)
lol this is talking about how we should come together and save this generation not take it back by force
Bullshit. It’s war rhetoric through and through. There is no denying it.
And check it out, kids… Although we condemn the marketing that strips you of your soul every day, we only charge $1.99 for BatteCry cell phone wallpaper. Collect them all!
ok…what does this have to do with anything?
Exactly what it says. Luce goes on and on about how this young generation is being force-fed commercial media and brainwashed into buying useless things that corrupt the soul. Yet they are selling the stupidest fucking shit a teenager could waste her money on: goddamn cell phone wallpaper. Why don’t you little shits take that $1.99 and give it to a charity that can actually feed some people instead? Why don’t you stop reading this blog and do what Jesus would want you to do and go take care of it right now?
NEXT RESPONSE: BattleCry as a political organization… Spelling out the painfully obvious: how it is using young people as cannon fodder in its “war” against the First Amendment and the Separation of Church and State.
6 May 2006, on 11:39 pm
Holy shit, KR. I had a great day and got a bit sunburned. Thanks for asking! And it looks like you have been holding the fort! Dayum.
Time to kick back and do some readin’!
7 May 2006, on 12:07 am
Why has no one contradicted me yet? Or is it that you can’t?
Please, please, abuse me too!
7 May 2006, on 12:28 am
Well, I was having fun doing it (the Queen is out of time and the Prince is asleep). Watch out for the sun. Those of us of Irish descent have no tolerance for the sun (or the son).
7 May 2006, on 12:29 am
I meant to say out of town.
7 May 2006, on 3:09 am
Why has no one contradicted me yet? Or is it that you can’t?
I think the christians here need to give up Battlecry and spend the time trying to learn how to read, spell and compose sentences correctly. Then you may also read up on some religions of the world (in addition to your own — most of you don’t even know your own theology or bible). Once you learn to read, also study ancient world mythologies, astronomy, biology, history, U.S. Government documents like the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc.(Government is very important because it explains how everything is set up to protect the rights of ALL citizens…not just fundie xians.)
First of all, learning to read is necessary because obviously you have not read a single word that atheists have written in all of the couple of hundred comments above, nor have you read anything else on this entire blog which contains a couple of YEARS worth of contradictions for you.
Spend more time on your homework, xian kids, instead of playing Battlecry games and being manipulated by some freak who is making money off you. Wise up…get smart…grow a brain.
7 May 2006, on 3:39 pm
Okay. Now on to BattleCry as a political organization and how they are using slick rhetoric to brainwash youth into fighting their political battles for them.
Luckily, others are taking notice and writing about the dangers of this organization, so I have some material to draw on already. Thank goodness for free speech and the internets.
As I have pointed out, BattleCry founder Ron Luce has stated that BattleCry is not a political organization (see him on Bill O’Reilly after the rally in San Francisco saying exactly that).
In their propaganda video made from the San Francisco rally (search the podcasts section of the iTunes music store for “BattleCry”) they have a young man saying “Nothing against San Francisco, but I think it’s forgotten the lord” — and then they pointedly cut to a shot of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, a drag performance/comedy troupe that is a particularly beloved local institution dating back 27 years, with a hell of a lot more heart and soul than the people who are brainwashing these kids. That was insulting and ignorant of the culture they were invading.
Also on that O’Reilly clip, San Francisco counter-demonstrators are accused of being abusive and intolerant toward a group that was simply there to peacefully demonstrate. I discovered this from a comment on IndyBay.org:
http://www.sfbg.com/40/26/news_shorts.html
Another comment on IndyBay from Mike over at Acquire the Evidence, cautions against giving these people what they want… Good points (which we have already violated by bitch-slapping a bunch of BattleCryBabies here on GifS — oops!):
Here and here are more examples from Acquire the Evidence that Luce is lying when he says that BattleCry is not a political organization.
As to BattleCry’s rhetoric, one of Luce’s repeated comments has been that all he wants to do is promote a return to the “Judeo-Christian values that made our nation great.”
Woah! This isn’t political? You just claimed that our entire nation was founded on Judeo-Christian values. Sounds to me like someone has not read the First Amendment for a while. And I get the feeling a lot of the Battle Cry youth have never read it. So, kids, I will reproduce it for you here:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
That’s a lot wrapped up in one sentence, huh? What it basically says is that you have a right to go around and say whatever you want about Jeebus, and I have a right to go around and say whatever I want about the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But it also says that your religion cannot influence the law, ever. So, to give you just one glaring example of how a) you are clearly being manipulated by people with a political agenda and b) Ron Luce is not interested in protecting the separation of church and state (a phrase commonly used to describe the values stated in the First Amendment), I point back to the fact that you chose San Francisco’s City Hall for your protest here specifically because that is where gay marriages took place. And you want the law to prohibit gay marriage. In fact, I bet you would support a Constitutional amendment against it. And what is your primary argument for why gay marriage should be illegal? The Bible. Are you seeing my point here?
As for the rhetoric about America being a nation founded on Judeo-Christian values, don’t believe Ron Luce’s lie.
Here’s some information, kids:
The First Amendment
Is America A ‘Christian Nation’?
American Statesmen on Religion
“Not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”
Religion and the Founding Fathers
7 May 2006, on 4:08 pm
Randy: I missed this one till now. High-larious. Woot!
7 May 2006, on 4:53 pm
What is the “world’s truth”? Again, do you have an absolute moral manual somewhere? Oh, yeah, the Bible… So morally inconsistent (”Abraham, kill your son and I will love you”) that even your finest theologians are still scratching their heads trying to figure it out. Address my point: they are saying that after 20 they can’t assimilate you as easily. And that’s NOT the tactics of a cult?ok can you rephrsaie that?
and when god told abraham to kill his son it was to test abrahams faith…when god saw that abraham was about to do it he stoped him and saw that abraham had a true relationship with god.
7 May 2006, on 5:25 pm
ok can you rephrsaie that?
No. I was perfectly clear. Can you spell “rephrase”?
and when god told abraham to kill his son it was to test abrahams faith…when god saw that abraham was about to do it he stoped him and saw that abraham had a true relationship with god.
That’s just sick. If a friend of yours asked you to kill your kid to prove your loyalty, wouldn’t you call the cops on him?
7 May 2006, on 6:35 pm
Why would a supposedly omniscient being need to test anyone’s faith? Wouldn’t he inherently know the level of their faith? Doesn’t his need to test someone imply a limit to his knowledge, thereby discrediting the notion that he is all-powerful and all-knowing? Wait, let me guess, it’s free will, isn’t it? It’s all our fault he feels insecure.
7 May 2006, on 9:17 pm
God did know Abrahams faith he just wanted to test him and see if he would still stay true to God or not. Abraham had faith that God would not really let his son die-he made have been sad of course and scared-probabley even had a little doubt, but he knew that God had huge plans for his son. God doesn’t feel insecure, he IS all-powerful and all-knowing, it was a test for Abramham-and he passed because of his love for God!!
7 May 2006, on 9:36 pm
Jim: you’re chemically insane if you really believe what you just wrote.
If gawd is all-knowing, he would have known Abraham’s reaction and not need to test him in the first place. He would have been able to read his every thought and intention and would know exactly how he would react.
In fact, and all-knowing gawd who rules over a universe of billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars and potentially trillions of life forms needing to see if some tiny little creature on a dustspeck of a planet in a remote spiral arm of an obscure and uninteresting galaxy would KILL HIS CHILD FOR HIM… Well, only a primitive human could actually think that up… And only primitive humans would still believe it.
7 May 2006, on 10:14 pm
“Abraham had faith that God would not really let his son die-he made have been sad of course and scared-probabley even had a little doubt, but he knew that God had huge plans for his son.”
If what you say is true, than either gawd is a transparent liar who couldn’t fool one of his own creations, or Abraham figured “what the hell?” since he knew gawd didn’t expect him to do anything so any actions on his part were meaningless, making the whole experience an experiment in sadism.
8 May 2006, on 12:13 am
Andrea Yates heard god tell her to kill her children and she did. It was the same god I assume. People who hear voices are in fact mentally ill and because of scientific understanding can and do get help before they kill. Only, it seems, the religious are not inclined to get help and are more inclined to call that voice “god”.
Why the fuck is this god asking people to kill to prove their love. Why not a real test like god says go out and heal 10 people with terminal cancer. Or go out and start an organization that ends poverty. Or????? Your xian worldview is a teeny tiny silly fantasy about reality.
More about those freaks who claimed god told them to do it.
http://www.local6.com/news/9009375/detail.html
http://www.exile.ru/2004-April-01/book_review.html
And now for a parody on the whole idea
http://www.thedailyfarce.com/legal.cfm?story=2004%5C03%5Clegal_crazymotherpleaseinsanity_03200400055
8 May 2006, on 12:31 am
I found this really good article about the Abraham and Isaac story here Was Abraham Ethical?
Here is an excerpt: Only much later did I realize that Abraham had two sons, Ishmael the firstborn and then Isaac. But he had banished one into the wilderness and here he is ready to sacrifice the other. When God referred to his “only” son, why didn’t Abraham retort, “But I have two sons”? When God said “whom thou lovest,” why didn’t Abraham say, “But I love both”? He argued with God to try to save a few good men in Sodom and Gomorrah. Why then didn’t he do anything to try to save his son?
Why should such an act be pleasing to God? What kind of God would find that pleasing? Why is faith not demonstrated by the love, care and protection of the child (and other people)? Why should faith first require allegiance to God and only secondarily to fellow humans?
One interpretation that would see the story as ethical is the one that sees it as marking the end of the ancient practice of child sacrifice. For example, the popular Interpreter’s Bible states, “The story of the proposed sacrifice of Isaac would not have been told except to discourage a custom which already existed.” The Encyclopedia Judaica says, “The original intent of the narrative has been understood by the critics either as an etiological legend explaining why the custom of child sacrifice was modified in a certain sanctuary by the substitution of a ram, or as a protest against human sacrifice.”
8 May 2006, on 6:16 am
Here’s what I don’t get. If Gawd is so great and we’re all supposed to fall on our knees to lick his asshole in great adoration and awe, why does he send only the dumbest people on earth to defend him and spread his word.
Surely he must know that a badly spelled, badly presented, throughly debunked “argument” from his sheeple must turn away people with more than seven brain cells.
The only conclusions are: A) he wants some people to go to hell or B) only the weak-mided, naieve or illeducated fall for this crap.
8 May 2006, on 6:28 am
The only conclusions are: A) he wants some people to go to hell or B) only the weak-mided, naieve or illeducated fall for this crap.
My money is on door number two, Lya.
8 May 2006, on 10:05 am
only the weak-mided, naieve or illeducated fall for this crap.
Something that doesn’t make sense to me is how my husband’s brother, who has a Ph.D. (and there are many other PhD and highly educated people in the world who are believers)…he is a devout Anglican and has claimed to have an “out of body” experience when he was in his 20s. We were having a discussion about religion a couple years ago and when he started getting frustrated with me when he could not answer some of my questions, he pulled that one out of his butt…”I saw myself floating above my body.” I tried saying it was psychology and he said he REALLY EXPERIENCED that and if someone thinks they experienced something in their own mind, that is sort of hard to disprove to them. Anyway, I used to think he was a real intelligent guy till we started talking religion.
8 May 2006, on 10:33 am
“Anyway, I used to think he was a real intelligent guy till we started talking religion. ”
Proof positive that degrees and credentials don’t automatically mean one isn’t crazy, deluded or brainwashed.
8 May 2006, on 2:47 pm
Sounds like a veiled threat to me- say hello to the FBI when they show up at your door (I reported you an hour ago for threatening violence against us). Furthermore, you should have asked gawd for either half a rational thought or the MLA Handbook and a dictionary.
Your brother in genetic similarities,
~ Marcus
PS: Your name certainly has a facist ring to it… Hmmmmmmm……..
==============================================================
Ah, I look forward to ministering to the FBI. I hope they like coffee. Aside from that, Whats past tense have to do with the future anyway? lol. At any rate, I hope you find the way to the truth. Besides, when we die, we will all know the truth anyway, now won’t we?
Oh and as for your comment about about evolution being fiction, there is no proof that evoltuion actually happend. It’s a THEORY. Lol, you know, an idea based on a few things that COULD proove it right, but still haven’t.
you may interpret it anyway you want. lol You have your rights, and i have mine.
Oh and I’ve never been to colarado, How are the mountians out there?
8 May 2006, on 2:58 pm
“At any rate, I hope you find the way to the truth. Besides, when we die, we will all know the truth anyway, now won’t we?”
*yawn* Pascal’s Wager is childish and lame. The only bad thing about being an atheist is that after we die, we won’t get to mock you when nothing happens.
“Oh and as for your comment about about evolution being fiction, there is no proof that evoltuion actually happend.”
Another LIAR for Jesus.
See what I mean. If there is a gawd, why would he send this complete dumbass to preach for him? Surely he’d know such a complete idiot with clearly no scientific training would be laughed at, right?
8 May 2006, on 3:11 pm
Lardschunder,
Ah, I look forward to ministering to the FBI. I hope they like coffee. Aside from that, Whats past tense have to do with the future anyway? lol. At any rate, I hope you find the way to the truth. Besides, when we die, we will all know the truth anyway, now won’t we? Oh and as for your comment about about evolution being fiction, there is no proof that evoltuion actually happend. It’s a THEORY. Lol, you know, an idea based on a few things that COULD proove it right, but still haven’t. you may interpret it anyway you want. lol You have your rights, and i have mine. Oh and I’ve never been to colarado, How are the mountians out there?
What in the blazing blue fuck did all that mean?
8 May 2006, on 3:17 pm
But thats the glory of god. David took down golith. Becuase the lord granted him the power. (Oh no, here comes someone telling me that never happend LMAO)
I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out
there isn’t, than live my life as if there isn’t, and die to find out
there is.
Honestly, your lives are yours, and mine is mine. I will live mine the way i wish. and you will live yours the way you wish.
Have fun with that BTW. May GOD bless you and I hope you do see the glory of the lord as I have.
8 May 2006, on 3:39 pm
See, Lordsthunder, the problem with creationists is you don’t understand the difference between a simple conjecture and a scientific theory. You think they are one in the same. They are not. I’m sorry that our educational system has failed you in this regard. I’ve been voting for the folks who care about our educational system all my life. I’m sorry I couldn’t have done more.
But, like I have said, it’s never too late to educate yourself. Really. Try it. There’s a world of information right at your fingertips. If I had grown up with the World Wide Web, my life would have been completely different. Please, take advantage of it while the technology still exists. If we get a few more generations that don’t understand basic science, we may lose this knowledge someday.
Here, I’ll get you started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/lenski.html
8 May 2006, on 3:52 pm
“Honestly, your lives are yours, and mine is mine. I will live mine the way i wish. and you will live yours the way you wish.”
I would prefer to live mine without hearing the same tired old drivel from uneducated brain-washing victims like you.
8 May 2006, on 5:26 pm
Some last observations on our long-gone commenter Aquinas’ namesake, “Saint” Thomas Aquinas:
Jim kinnet, you haven’t answered yet my last questions to you.
Vanderput: Man, I don’t know what happened to you but it’s not about brainwashing or anything like that. It’s about loving God.
First, scientifically prove your god exists.
V: You must have had some bad experiences with Christians and I’m sorry for that I’ll be praying for you all.
Please don’t bother wasting your prayers on us; use them for something really worthwhile, like world peace and the end of famine and disease.
lordsthunder: But thats the glory of god.
OK, then scientifically prove your god exists.
lt: David took down golith. Becuase the lord granted him the power. (Oh no, here comes someone telling me that never happend LMAO)
Please, don’t be afraid; just prove to us that it *did* happen.
lt: I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn’t, than live my life as if there isn’t, and die to find out there is.
Then good luck, because you may be living your life by the *wrong god.* Millions of Hindus and neo-pagans say you are (Pascal’s Wager, by the way, if you’re interested in educating yourself).
lt: Honestly, your lives are yours, and mine is mine. I will live mine the way i wish. and you will live yours the way you wish.
Fine, just as long as you don’t try to force us to live our lives according to the way you wish.
Have fun with that BTW.
We will.
lt: May GOD bless you and I hope you do see the glory of the lord as I have.
We’d love to, but you have to first prove scientifically that he exists.
8 May 2006, on 5:30 pm
Lardschunder said Ah, I look forward to ministering to the FBI. I hope they like coffee. Aside from that, Whats past tense have to do with the future anyway? lol. At any rate, I hope you find the way to the truth. Besides, when we die, we will all know the truth anyway, now won’t we? Oh and as for your comment about about evolution being fiction, there is no proof that evoltuion actually happend. It’s a THEORY. Lol, you know, an idea based on a few things that COULD proove it right, but still haven’t. you may interpret it anyway you want. lol You have your rights, and i have mine. Oh and I’ve never been to colarado, How are the mountians out there?
Marcus said What in the blazing blue fuck did all that mean?
These kids must be the ones with the crystal meth addiction problems. It’s a growing problem in the boring rural areas. I can see where it might go hand in hand with those seeking the thrill and excitement of Battlecry.
See link:http://www.webmd.com/content/article/108/109064.htm
8 May 2006, on 5:30 pm
Well, fudge, my link didn’t work; here goes again, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aquinas:
Some of Thomas’s ethical conclusions are at odds with the majority view in the contemporary West. For example, he held that heretics “deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death”, and thus that heresy should be punished by death (ST II:II 11:3), He also maintained the intellectual inferiority of women and their subjection to men on that account (see ST I:92:1), which is one reason why he opposed the ordination of women (see (ST Supp. 39:1); he did say, however, that they were fit for the exercise of temporal power. He also held that “a parent can lawfully strike his child, and a master his slave that instruction may be enforced by correction”. (ST II:II 65:2).
8 May 2006, on 5:32 pm
Oh, and that “don’t waste prayer” quip? Captain Al’s line!
8 May 2006, on 5:35 pm
Sounds like a nice guy. Good thing they canonized him.
8 May 2006, on 6:18 pm
You are looking for scientific evidence that my God is real:
~To tell you the truth this is my evidence it is not scientific but in my heart I believe it with a passion. You can call me dum all you want and say I am trying to convert you but right now what I am doing is telling you why I think, why I know there is a God.
*Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
*Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
There had to have been a God to create the world and in this first book of the Bible it is saying that there was God and he created earth and out of his own hands made the heavens.
-Once again my beliefs and this is my evidence to you.
-You may think that the Bible is mythology but it isn’t, all of the scripture was inspired by the God of the heavens and earth. Who is now alive and living.
– You cannot say there is no God when around us His beauty is being revealed! There may be war going on and disasters but all of that is caused by man. My God is loving but he is also just.
-Even if you don’t believe in evolution it has been scientifically proven wrong. I recommend the Kent Hoven series on creation, it is explaining how evolution cannot be real. Alot of it I didn’t know before I watched them but they grounded me further into my beliefs, I am once again not trying to convert you or convince you that I am right, I am telling you why I believe what I believe.
8 May 2006, on 7:06 pm
Jim K – You are believing what you want to believe. If you were born in India would would be a Hindu, in Iran a Muslim, in Japan a Buddhist…and so on. If no one told you about Jeebus, you would never have known about god or Jeebus. It is a story passed on and on and on and people like to believe it because they are afraid to die and no longer existing…the fantasy helps them cope. But they really don’t believe it and it is why they are so sad when their loved ones die. It is why they go to doctors and look to SCIENCE to keep them alive. You depend on SCIENCE far more than you do your god.
Ok…I am weary of this dude.
8 May 2006, on 7:07 pm
Here is a website that might tell you some about Kent Hoven, http://drkenthvn.g4in.info/
8 May 2006, on 7:27 pm
Jim K
Commandment 2 of Commandments for a New Age
2. Thou shalt not use circular arguments,
such as “God exists because the Bible sayeth so,
and the Bible is True because it is God’s Word.”
8 May 2006, on 7:33 pm
New age huh?
8 May 2006, on 8:02 pm
Hey I understand this site gets old too…you guys just say the same things over and over again. lol But I am thankful for my experiences here because I now see that I need to start studying God’s word more and more and go into it deeper than before. I know that my relationship with God is lacking and I thank you for helping me see that. I am going to start spending more time with my God and start going out and telling people about him. After I have spent more time with him lol!! God bless and love ya! I know that you guys hear this all the time but I will be keeping you in my prayers! Forever
8 May 2006, on 8:17 pm
“john 7:37 if you are thirsty come to me if you believe in me come and drinkfor the scripture declares that rivers of living water will flow out from within.when the the crowds heard him say this some declared this man is surely the prophet.” wouldnt you rather live as if ther is a god which there is than as if theres not and burn in hell
Asshat: The Official Site for the Best Word Ever
8 May 2006, on 8:24 pm
Hey I understand this site gets old too…you guys just say the same things over and over again. lol But I am thankful for my experiences here because I now see that I need to start studying God’s word more and more and go into it deeper than before. I know that my relationship with God is lacking and I thank you for helping me see that. I am going to start spending more time with my God and start going out and telling people about him. After I have spent more time with him lol!! God bless and love ya! I know that you guys hear this all the time but I will be keeping you in my prayers! Forever
Jim, what are you LOLing about? You clearly learned nothing here. That’s not funny, it’s sad.
8 May 2006, on 8:27 pm
Oh no I learned ALOT here I learned how it’s sad how little I actually do know about this stuff. You have created a hunger in me for more knowledge about God and the Bible. I want to start bible studies now and come in the counsil or other christians so that we can pray about and discuss what scriptures mean.
8 May 2006, on 8:33 pm
I am going to start spending more time with my God
Jim K…aren’t you afraid your god is going to zap you for being on the internet? (You know it is the “devil’s” tool.) One more example of how xians say they hate science, but then LOVE using it every day. I think you must think WE are your god because you spend so much time here.
8 May 2006, on 8:35 pm
you have created a hunger in me for more knowledge about God and the Bible. I want to start bible studies now and come in the counsil or other christians so that we can pray about and discuss what scriptures mean.
Eeenie Meenie, jelly-beanie the spirits are about to speak!
8 May 2006, on 8:38 pm
I challenge you, prove to me that life can arise from non-life. Then I will beleive that it happened. Science has disproved that life can arise from non-life BTW.
If you wish to look at is sceintifically. Why are so many SCIENTISTS saying that evolution can not exist? How did life spring from nothing? Why did all these birds and animals that supposidly “Evolved” been proven by science to have apread around the same time?
I have more to say, but, I will leave you with that. Good night, may god Bless you. And I hope your lives are happy, for your after life, may not be so pleasent. I hope you find salvation though.
8 May 2006, on 8:44 pm
Oh no I just understand how little I know and how much more I long to know about my God. The one who created me!
8 May 2006, on 8:51 pm
lordsthunder – it is obvious that you know nothing about science. You really need THIS
8 May 2006, on 8:56 pm
Jim K – you really need THIS
8 May 2006, on 9:15 pm
Jim Kinnet
Go here for the truth of Kent Hovind. Hovind is a despicable liar and he malisciously misleads people like yourself. He is a religious person who believes that the ends justifies the means. Anything for his god including lies. One day I hope you take some time to learn the truth about these issues and I also hope you don’t get too pissed because of the liars you have been giving your money to.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/
Lordsthunder
Not many scientists disbelieve in evolution. If you are talking about the Discovery Institutes tally of over 500 scientists who signed on to the Intelligent Design paper. Not one of them was or is an evolutionary biologist and most are only periferally involved in science. Today in the U.S. There are about 2.5 million scientists who are directly engaged in scientific research. There is another 2.5 million who are engineers and physisists. So about 5 million scientifically trained people and only 500 signed. That is not very good and should tell you about the type of science you are learning from your religious training. If you continue you will not be able to compete in the coming decades in anything but the most menial of jobs.And once again you are being lied to and you are giving the very liars your money to lie to you.
8 May 2006, on 9:34 pm
Stardust
This and This. Great!
8 May 2006, on 9:38 pm
jimmer–thanks…your explanations are great too…but they will need the “This and This” before they will be able to comprehend what you explained to them in your comment.
8 May 2006, on 10:14 pm
You calling him a liar is just like me calling you or anyone else a liar. His videos make sense and speak truth-unlike these scientists who put monkey and human bones together and call it “evolution” and start a new THEORY that we came from monkeys. If we did where are the monkeys now?? lol If there was no God there would be no good in this world. Without God America would be a lost nation. Well I have to get off and I leave you with this:
This is not to scare you this is why I tell people about God:
(and I am not scared just prepared!!)
Revelation 1:1-3
1)The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2)who testifies to everything he saw-that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3)Blessed is the one who reads the words of prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
I want everyone to have a chance to hear about God and decide wether they want to know him or not. We are not a cult or brainwashed we are passionate people after God. You may think all of that was useless to say but it is why I believe what I do and why I will not fall to lie that there is no God. Love you all and God bless!!
8 May 2006, on 10:34 pm
You calling him a liar is just like me calling you or anyone else a liar.
ummm….he is a liar…and you are a liar’s apprentice.
8 May 2006, on 10:36 pm
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS:
UPDATED FOR A MODERN AGE
1. Thou shalt shut thy gob when politely asked,
and not drone on endlessly.
2. Thou shalt not use circular arguments,
such as “God exists because the Bible sayeth so,
and
the Bible is True because it is God’s Word.”
3. Thou shalt notice when thy audience is bored rigid.
(See Commandment 1.)
4. Thou shalt not use a cop-out such as
“God worketh in mysterious ways” when backed into a
corner by thine own convoluted logic.
5. Thou shalt use thine own imagination,
and not just quote from the Bible all the time.
6. Thou shalt not tell atheists what they believe,
nor that thy God loveth them.
7. Thou shalt not get upset by jokes about thy God.
He is big enough and old enough to looketh
after himself.
8. Thou shalt not define how thy God worketh.
Thou canst not know.
9. Thou shalt not state that the Bible is consistent
and hath no contradictions.
Thou wouldst be a
fool to doeth so.
10. Thou shalt not say Grace without also thanking the farmers,
truck-drivers and shopkeepers
who actually did the work required to get your food to the table.
8 May 2006, on 10:43 pm
I want everyone to have a chance to hear about God and decide wether they want to know him or not.
Jim K…If you could read you would know from what is written all over this blog that we probably know more about the christian religion than you do…as well as all the many, many other religions in the world…and all of their followers believe they have the TRUE religion…and others believe it is YOU who is an infidel and don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of going to heaven. Study some social anthropology and cultural diversity, world religions, mythology and you will see how many fruitballs like yourself there are in the world.
Sean….we HAVE to do something about this guy’s “lol” bullshit…it’s really irritating.
8 May 2006, on 10:51 pm
So, speaking of doing something about this guy’s “LOL” bullshit. I assume everyone has seen Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back? Just sayin’…
GifS Road Trip! Woo Hoo!
8 May 2006, on 11:18 pm
His videos make sense and speak truth
Baby fucking dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark is speaking truth? The last dinosaur was dead some 60-odd million years before there was any sign of what we would call human life. If you think this is a disputed fact, you’re a fool.
You’re lost my friend. Utterly lost. The Earth is ancient in the extreme. The universe is ancient in the extreme.
http://www.historyoftheuniverse.com/tl1.html
How old are you that you have clearly never read a single real science book? GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND START OVER.
9 May 2006, on 1:03 am
Monkey and human bones??? Every time I hear this I know that the person making such statements have not studied evolution. Not even one bit.I do not know how to comment on this./Sean said it best. Start over.
Marcus, in post 210. Exactly. I read that about 3 times thinking I was missing some context. Only to realize WTF?
9 May 2006, on 3:11 am
Here’s a question I find much more intersting than arguing with these ignorant kids. What motivates the anti-evolution mindset in the first place? Catholicism has largely reconcile with evolution. They mostly see Genesis as allegory, and don’t dispute the fact-based history of the earth — when dinosaurs lived and so forth.
But these whacky creationist types live in utter fear of accpting the old age of the universe, evolution, etc. What are they so afraid of/resistant to?
9 May 2006, on 6:19 am
And for the record, no one brainwashed me, I saught them out after discovering the truth of the living GOD.
Just a hint, actually read the Bible. then complain to me
9 May 2006, on 6:22 am
“And for the record, no one brainwashed me, I saught them out after discovering the truth of the living GOD.”
yeah, that’s not brainwashing at all. *cue circus freak music*
“Just a hint, actually read the Bible.”
Just a hint: Deconversion. Congrats for making a total fool of yourself yet again.
So, perhaps you could tell me why a supposedly all-powerful god wuold send someone as clueless as you to defend him.
9 May 2006, on 6:32 am
responses to various idiotic postings:
” would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out
there isn’t, than live my life as if there isn’t, and die to find out
there is.”
Once again for the slow group – Pascal’s Wager is childish and dumb. Here’s why
“I challenge you, prove to me that life can arise from non-life. Then I will beleive that it happened. ”
What does this have to do with evolution?
“And I hope your lives are happy, for your after life, may not be so pleasent. I hope you find salvation though. ”
Yeah, quite the loving gawd you got there. I sincerely pity you.
~~~~
“You may think that the Bible is mythology but it isn’t, all of the scripture was inspired by the God of the heavens and earth.”
Actually, they were cannabalized from older civilizations. if you read something other than the useless Bible occasionally, you would know this.
” I know that you guys hear this all the time but I will be keeping you in my prayers! Forever ”
We say the same things because xians say the same childish and uneducated statements over and over again. But thanks for admitting you’ll do absolutely nothing.
“I want to start bible studies now and come in the counsil or other christians so that we can pray about and discuss what scriptures mean. ”
Good. We’ll see you back here as an atheist in a year then.
~~~
” dont know if you guys have seen passion of the christ but if you havent you should and maybe youd understand this love that we feel going though some of youire comments makes me wantto cry why do you have to post this on the internet ”
Let me guess, you’re a teenager, right? First, Passion of the Christ was a terrible snuff movie. It was two hours of a good-looking, healthy young man being tortured to death and you sickos treat it like it’s the best porn on earth.
Second, why should anything we say make you want to cry? Why on earth should you care what we think of your beliefs? Keep them to yourself and you’ll receive no vitrol from us. It’s when your ilk tries to force everyone into their mold that they are met with resistance.
~~~
“His videos make sense and speak truth-unlike these scientists who put monkey and human bones together and call it “evolution” and start a new THEORY that we came from monkeys. ”
Thank you for proving neither you or he has any idea what they’re talking about. Evolution does not say we come from monkeys. Nice try though!
“I want everyone to have a chance to hear about God and decide wether they want to know him or not.”
Read the Deconversion post given above. There’s two more after that. I looked, nothing happened. Nice try though!
9 May 2006, on 9:13 am
” dont know if you guys have seen passion of the christ but if you havent you should and maybe youd understand this love that we feel going though some of youire comments makes me wantto cry why do you have to post this on the internet ”
First of all, Hollywood is making money off you xians. They know you are gullible and love gore and torture…they knew that you would love it if they made it extra gory and bloody just for you. Xians have always called Hollywood evil and Hollywood has now found a way to change your minds and get your money too…and they are making big profits off of your gullibility.
About you wanting to cry…xians always cry when they don’t have a good explanation for us and get backed into a corner. It’s frustrating for you, so you get all emotional.It is not out of love…because you cannot talk of love and your evil god myth stories all in the same breath. YOU need to know your bible…you obviously haven’t read the OT at all. And this story of Jesus crucifixion in the NT is the cruelest of all…because this gawd has all this power and yet chooses to create this human son for himself merely to torture, abuse and kill. If you read mythology, there are many other myths where gods have children and torture and/or kill them. You are a slave to something in your own mind.
9 May 2006, on 10:42 am
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ!
Jim, you couldn’t have picked a better role model. Kent Hovind is an anti-goverment, racist, conspiracy-loving, anti-environment, rapture-waitin’ True Christian. He can’t even bother to pay taxes and got his doctorate from a diploma mill.
Blunder Lord: The creation of life from non-life is NOT evolution.
Creationists, say the word with me. It is called abiogenesis. That’s ABIOGENESIS not evolution.
9 May 2006, on 10:57 am
Paul, how many sciencey type words do you expect them to be able to retain? Evolution and abiogenesis have a lot of syllables in them and are probably hard from them to sound out. They could ask their parents to help them say them or to look them up, but chances are they have the same lack of education and do you think there are actually any dictionaries or science textbooks in their homes? I think not. It’s nice of you to try and provide them with some education but they haven’t got past this level yet:
http://www.tagnwag.com/forsale/dick_jane_vintage/index.html
9 May 2006, on 11:18 am
Here is a good help site for Jim K and Blunder Lord (Paul…that is funny). Most of the xians who commented here need this desperately:
http://teacher.scholastic.com/reading/bestpractices/phonics.htm
9 May 2006, on 2:29 pm
Jim kinnet Says: You are looking for scientific evidence that my God is real:
~To tell you the truth this is my evidence it is not scientific but in my heart I believe it with a passion.
Jim, you admit that you have no scientific evidence that god as described in the bible exists, and go on to quote from your religion’s mythology. In short, you have failed to prove unequivocally and incontrovertibly the existence of your deity.
Jk: There had to have been a God to create the world
Why?
Jk: and in this first book of the Bible it is saying that there was God and he created earth and out of his own hands made the heavens.
The Finnish creation epic “Kalevala” describes how the world is created out of the pieces of an egg laid on a goddess’ knee.
Jk: -Once again my beliefs and this is my evidence to you.
It isn’t evidence, Jim; it’s a story you’ve chosen to believe actually happened in time and space.
Jk: -You may think that the Bible is mythology but it isn’t,
The ancient Finns also believed in the story of the world egg; it’s still a myth.
Jk: all of the scripture was inspired by the God of the heavens and earth. Who is now alive and living.
Which you have failed to prove.
Jk: – You cannot say there is no God when around us His beauty is being revealed!
Like what?
Jk: There may be war going on and disasters but all of that is caused by man.
So your god is not only scientifically unproven, but if he exists is powerless to stop man. And what about what woman causes?
Jk: My God is loving but he is also just.
None of which does anyone any good if he’s powerless to stop man.
Jk: -Even if you don’t believe in evolution it has been scientifically proven wrong.
No, it has not.
Jk: I recommend the Kent Hoven series on creation, it is explaining how evolution cannot be real.
Kent Hovind and his “science” has been thoroughly debunked and exposed as false.
Jk: Alot of it I didn’t know before I watched them but they grounded me further into my beliefs,
Then you are one of the many gullible people he has very cruelly tricked.
Jk: I am once again not trying to convert you or convince you that I am right,
Oh, come now; of course you are.
Jk: I am telling you why I believe what I believe.
And it makes no sense, Jim; can’t you see that?
Jk: Hey I understand this site gets old too…you guys just say the same things over and over again.
Except that unlike many theists, much of what *we* say over and over again is true.
Jk: lol But I am thankful for my experiences here because I now see that I need to start studying God’s word more and more and go into it deeper than before.
With all due respect, Jim, what you need is to distance yourself from the bible and study it from a different point of view; if all you do is “go into it deeper,” you’ll just be reinforcing the same perspectives and approaches over and over again.
Jk: I know that my relationship with God is lacking and I thank you for helping me see that. I am going to start spending more time with my God and start going out and telling people about him. After I have spent more time with him lol!!
Whatever flips your pancakes – just don’t say the bible commands you to do it, because as I demonstrated above, it doesn’t. Be honest and admit you want everyone to agree with you because you don’t really want true freedom of expression around you.
Jk: Oh no I learned ALOT here I learned how it’s sad how little I actually do know about this stuff. You have created a hunger in me for more knowledge about God and the Bible. I want to start bible studies now and come in the counsil or other christians so that we can pray about and discuss what scriptures mean.
Then you’re lying that you want to learn more about the bible. By only studying with other xians, people who already agree with you, all you will all do is look in the bible for the stuff that verifies/confirms/supports what you already believe to be true. You’ll just be rehashing the same old material and interpretations over and over again, claiming that you’re discovering it’s true when really you’ve all being agreeing with each other from the start anyway. Take a university-level course in bible as history/literature/mythology, maybe some comparative religion, and start learning about how people create, develop, and believe in concepts of the supernatural.
Jk: You calling him a liar is just like me calling you or anyone else a liar.
Except that Hovind has been *proven* to be a liar.
Jk: His videos make sense and speak truth-
Only to people too lazy to seek the real truth.
Jk: unlike these scientists who put monkey and human bones together and call it “evolution” and start a new THEORY that we came from monkeys. If we did where are the monkeys now??
Jim, if you dedicated to real science half the love, passion, and desire to learn you claim to have for the bible, you would be on your knees begging our forgiveness for spouting such uneducated, willfully ignorant nonsense.
Jk: lol If there was no God there would be no good in this world. Without God America would be a lost nation.
And without ghosts there would be no creaky old wooden houses at night.
Jk: Well I have to get off and I leave you with this:
This is not to scare you this is why I tell people about God:
(and I am not scared just prepared!!)
I’m far more scared of people like *you* than I am of a god you for one have failed to prove exists.
Jk: Revelation 1:1-3
1)The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2)who testifies to everything he saw-that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3)Blessed is the one who reads the words of prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
About Revelation…
Jk: I want everyone to have a chance to hear about God and decide wether they want to know him or not. We are not a cult or brainwashed we are passionate people after God. You may think all of that was useless to say but it is why I believe what I do and why I will not fall to lie that there is no God.
If you can’t prove that this god of yours exists, then yes, you might as well be lying.
Jk: Love you all and God bless!!
May you open your eyes and let the light of reason into your mind.
9 May 2006, on 3:05 pm
Great smackdowns, gang. Fun reading. Eve: that creaky old houses crack was priceless.
I can’t believe that butt Fedora resorted to this decrepit old canard:
Jk: unlike these scientists who put monkey and human bones together and call it “evolution” and start a new THEORY that we came from monkeys. If we did where are the monkeys now??
He even got it backward. It’s supposed to go:
“If we came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?”
To which I enjoy replying: “If Protestants came from Catholics, then why are there still Catholics?”
9 May 2006, on 3:37 pm
Man, Oh man, is catching up exhaustive! Maybe I should just quit writing… or maybe not.
9 May 2006, on 4:31 pm
Marcus, what are you writing? I know, I’m being nosy again…
9 May 2006, on 4:38 pm
Hey Fucktard!!!!!!! are you so dumb as not to see that GOD has given us choice?
and dont you realize that this world we live in is corrupt?
YOU COULDNT GET ANY MORE CLUELESS COULD YOU!? THIS IS AN OBVIOUS ATTACK OF SATAN. HE ISNT DUMB YA KNOW.he will decieve you in any way. he can through the media, through other people who have refused to follow christ. it isnt enough to just say i believe GOD exist. you guys can just go ahead and have a grand party with the enemy after death ok. you see for those who are blind to HIS power will surely fall. i just hope god has mercy on your souls.
Meanwhile, anyone who wants to come over to my house and video tape me sucking on my German Shepard’s penis is welcome to! I only charge $5 for a suck session. If you want to see the dog fuck me, that’s another #10. You can email me directly at exiled_one88@yahoo.com.
9 May 2006, on 6:47 pm
Furthermore, I have run out of argumentz and am now redused to calling you the spawn of lucvifer and prosletyzing (big word for me!), which i am sure is a complete violation of your comments policy and for which I deserve any and all bitch-slapppping you wanna give me.
My mother used to suck coks in hell bythe way, before she accepted jesus… Now she sucks cocks in heavan! Glory be my Lord the Great Cornholio! I can call singularity educators the most putrid name on Earth and claim they eat cow-dung ambrosia, but the lying ass bastards will not even object – for they know I am right and that any debate will indict them for the evil they perpetuate
against the students and future humanity. Such is the nature of timeCUBE!
9 May 2006, on 7:12 pm
Lordblunder…have you even read your entire bible? Do you believe in stoning people for committing adultry? It’s in your bible. Do you believe a woman should hide herself when menstrating? It’s in your bible. Do you masturbate or ever have a wet dream? If so, you should be punished with time in jail…it’s in your bible. If you are smart mouthed to your mom…should we stone you to death? It’s in your bible.
You don’t have a clue about your “guide book.”
I also find lots of passages where this god maims, kills and destroys. But after reading the bible completely twice through, and I have read it in parts after that for reference, etc. I find no place where this satan character kills…the worst Lucifer does is to “tempt” people away from this god.
Read some ancient mythologies and compare the stories that were written long before the bible. Many were once religions like xianity. One day xianity will be mythology.
We here are not tools for any supernatural delusion. We are free from that and it’s quite wonderful and peaceful if xians would just stop trying to shove their superstitious beliefs on everyone.
We are trying to tell you…GET EDUCATED. Religion keeps you in chains.
9 May 2006, on 7:14 pm
I was hoping someone would get fed up enough to do the asshat.
10 May 2006, on 6:12 am
Asshat #1: “i just hope god has mercy on your souls.”
I just hope you grow up someday. Put away the fairy tales. It’s embarrassing for you.
Asshat #2:”You are no better than the ones you hate”
Since I don’t hate anyone, that must make me better than you, as you clearly do hate. And quite often at that.
Anyone else get the strong impression that these are very young teenagers?
10 May 2006, on 7:07 am
Lya Kahlo Says:
Anyone else get the strong impression that these are very young teenagers?
Even if they are 13-14 (and I was witness to the droves of them bused into SF in March — they all looked 15-18), they are far more inarticulate than anyone I knew at their age (mid-’80s).
Again, I hated it when I got it from my elders growing up… But now I see it, the steady decline in the basic building blocks of scholarly expression: decent writing skills, decent critical thinking skills, some worldliness — both bookwise and through travel/broadening horizons.
Even rich kids like Paris Hilton — with all the opportunities at their disposal — embrace the dumbing down of popular discourse.
10 May 2006, on 11:22 am
“Again, I hated it when I got it from my elders growing up… But now I see it, the steady decline in the basic building blocks of scholarly expression: decent writing skills, decent critical thinking skills, some worldliness — both bookwise and through travel/broadening horizons.
Even rich kids like Paris Hilton — with all the opportunities at their disposal — embrace the dumbing down of popular discourse. ”
I read today – can’t remember where. Might even have been here – that a high percentage of high school drop outs believe that the world is less then 10,000 years old. Then there was the poll of how most highschoolers couldn’t find Iraq or Lousiana on a map.
I don’t know. Is education getting that bad or has it always been that bad and it was just underreported? I mean, is there any comparable data from earlier times? Could kids in the ’50s find either on a map? How about 1850?
See what I mean? We can complain about how fucking dumb kids are, but is it really any different than from times past?
That said, that Parasite Hilton is anyone’s role model is a truly terrifying thought. She’s pretty much indicative of everything that is wrong with American Culture sans religion.
10 May 2006, on 11:35 am
Even rich kids like Paris Hilton — with all the opportunities at their disposal — embrace the dumbing down of popular discourse.
I will never understand why kids today think it is “cool” to be stupid.
10 May 2006, on 11:43 am
“I will never understand why kids today think it is “cool” to be stupid. ”
I can’t agree. It’s not “kids today”. It has always been like that. Smart (re: nerdy) kids have always been picked on, and dumb popular jocks were the ones that did it.
It may all be getting worse, but it didn’t have far to fall from.
10 May 2006, on 11:47 am
We can complain about how fucking dumb kids are, but is it really any different than from times past?
For awhile I thought maybe I am just getting old and getting like most old people get and long for the “good ol’ days.” But looking back to when I was a teenagers in the 70s, kids could figure out how much change to give you back without a calculator. They HAD to find resources for papers in a library and they weren’t taught to simply regurgitate on standardized tests. Geography was a part of our required curriculum.
A HUGE factor for the stupidity of the kids is the standardized testing…more effort is put into memorizing fixed answers to tests than actual learning or critical thinking.
10 May 2006, on 11:53 am
I can’t agree. It’s not “kids today”. It has always been like that. Smart (re: nerdy) kids have always been picked on, and dumb popular jocks were the ones that did it.
It may all be getting worse, but it didn’t have far to fall from.
Lya, I agree with that. My husband and I have never been pleased with the educational system and is why we found an alternative educational plan for our kids for high school. Our kids independent studied for their high school years and we got them out of all that. They had associate degrees while their peers were just graduating high school. It’s not that they are “geniuses”….there are just ways around the system. I think a big part of the problem is lack of parental involvement. It’s sad that parents don’t pay attention or don’t care if their child is learning even the basic skills needed to get him/her a decent job.
10 May 2006, on 12:14 pm
I dunno, I remember in high school my dad pointing out how terrible my vocabulary was compared to where his was at my age. He pulled out actual written examples and he was right. He also lamented the loss of courses like Latin, which was never even offered at my schools. His generation was still one of letters, and he and his friends wrote magnificent ones to each other on a weekly basis. That group of people in his life is dying off, to be replaced with the choppy, rushed, poorly thought-through “prose” of email.
10 May 2006, on 12:16 pm
“I will never understand why kids today think it is “cool” to be stupid. ”
And moreover, how can kids be expected to come to any othe conclusion than “buk learnin’ ain’t kool” when schools are so painfully underfunded, we’ve got a president that listens to the opinions of yes man instead of actual professionals in the field, and who I suspect is functionally illiterate? Even t.v. clearly champions dumbasses – Joey from Friends, anyone? And, lastly, since the god xian bible doesn’t praise intelligence, but rather alliegance, how can we expect them to come to any other conclusion?
Look at the spelling and grammar we see from younger posters. It’s embarassing.
10 May 2006, on 12:18 pm
I seem to remember Jimmy Dean being articulate in “Rebel Without a Cause.” He was tough and cool and an outcast, but he had a smart mouth. Paris Hilton just plays dumb.
10 May 2006, on 12:18 pm
“It’s sad that parents don’t pay attention or don’t care if their child is learning even the basic skills needed to get him/her a decent job. ”
I rather think that’s the general entitlement position of America. They don’t need to actually train to get a good job, being Americans, they just deserve them.
10 May 2006, on 12:37 pm
And, lastly, since the god xian bible doesn’t praise intelligence, but rather alliegance, how can we expect them to come to any other conclusion?
This is sadly true. I see such evidence for this on the essay exams I grade for statewide achievement tests. I lost count of the essays where kids have written “Science will do you no good” (I spelled the words correctly here, they usually write like first graders) in place of an answer, or the answer is idiotic and filled with creationist bullshit.
I rather think that’s the general entitlement position of America. They don’t need to actually train to get a good job, being Americans, they just deserve them.
Exactly…like kids and their parents believing they deserve As just for showing up. We often joke that schools should just print everyone’s name in the paper for the honor roll section, because practically everyone is on it anyway since standards and expectations have been lowered so much to make it appear the town is full of smart kids when it is actually the opposite.
10 May 2006, on 12:48 pm
I’m moving to another country.
10 May 2006, on 12:59 pm
Lya, I have friends in Sweden who say “come on over!”
10 May 2006, on 5:56 pm
I graduated highschool in 1995 and started college in 2003. I had to start with the basic English course as it was a requirement. The instructor was astounded that I could actually compose a coherent, grammatically correct essay almost ten years after highschool. The credit goes to Mrs. Caldwell my junior English teacher. She was tough and unforgiving but at the same time she was willing to help after school or she was even available at her house most nights.
The education standards have been lowered not only on just a highschool level but on a college level too. I will see if I can dig it up but I read an article a few years ago that compared the requirements to earn a four year degree. The years they compared were 1930, 1950, 1970, 1990, and 2000. In 1930 if one wanted a B.A. the course load was about double the course load for 2000. The study showed the same for B.S. It also showed what has been eliminated from the requiremnets over the years.It was very interesting to read and If I am able to locate it I will try to post it here.
10 May 2006, on 6:41 pm
I will see if I can dig it up but I read an article a few years ago that compared the requirements to earn a four year degree.
P.C – I would be very interested in reading that article.
10 May 2006, on 10:53 pm
Star it might take me a little time to find the article because I am still trying to get my house back in shape from Katrina.I also packed a lot of stuff for storage at my mom and dads house before the hurricane hit. I believe it might be there if I cannot find it I will search the internet I remember that it was a Reader’s Digest article.
10 May 2006, on 11:42 pm
[Ed. note: idiot fucking buttmunch Jim Kinnet has blatantly ignored our comments policy and begun screaming at us that we are Satan. Okay, Jim.]
In a world full of staggering stupidity there is but one drug, but one saving drug…it is the drug of God!! There may be evil in the world and God could zap us all if we mess up, but he has given us a choice. A choice of how we want to live and what we want to live our lives for. That choice decides who we will be in life and how much of a difference we will make.
There is no line between:
~God’s side – you are on the winning side
~Other side – you are on Satan’s side and your only hope is death.
I am on God’s side because I want to share the drug he has given me with everyone else!
(Smiley face, even though you’re all going to hell) 
Science can prove nothing it is just backed up with evidence which is backed up with more evidence. [Ed. note: I didn't add that -- he actually said that!] Just as there was evidence there was God because the evidence where the scrolls of history found by the Red Sea- they told the life of the greatest person ever to walk the earth. Father Guido Sarducci was that person but he was more than just a good man he came and took the sin of the world away. He came and fullfilled the scripture (prophecies) in The Hobbit about a Man With a Big’a Moostache being born and his name shall be Guido.
~Guido will never leave you remember that it is you who leaves Guido.
~He is still right there holding open his arms for anyone who will come back to him because he is a loving and merciful Guido.
**But once agian it is a choice we make and I will choose this day to serve my own head on a platter. Jesus H. Christ!! With all of my heart and soul proclaiming Guido’s name in all the earth and all across the nations, and on public access television at three A.M.
*I leave you with this:
Father Guido Sarducci gave his life for you so that you WON’T have to go to Safeway and do your own shopping. So that we can live an eternal life with him after we die (in the produce aisle). He created us to drug us and he does that is why he gave his son. So once again!!!! Sarducci bless and I drug myeself with all my heart!!
11 May 2006, on 1:55 am
“Just as there was evidence there was God because the evidence where the scrolls of history found by the Red Sea- they told the life of the greatest person ever to walk the earth. Father Guido Sarducci was that person but he was more than just a good man he came and took the sin of the world away. He came and fullfilled the scripture (prophecies) in The Hobbit about a Man With a Big’a Moostache being born and his name shall be Guido.”
LMFAO
Holy shit, Sean, that was great!
11 May 2006, on 2:06 am
Thanks, KR, I’ll be here all week. Try the Xian cutlets. The lions liked ‘em.
11 May 2006, on 12:18 pm
Science can prove nothing it is just backed up with evidence which is backed up with more evidence. [Ed. note: I didn’t add that — he actually said that!]
This is the most hilarious comment I have heard in a long time! LOL!! Oh my Flying Spaghetti Monster, my sides are splitting!
11 May 2006, on 12:25 pm
“In a world full of staggering stupidity there is but one drug, but one saving drug…it is the drug of God!! There may be evil in the world and God could zap us all if we mess up, but he has given us a choice. A choice of how we want to live and what we want to live our lives for. That choice decides who we will be in life and how much of a difference we will make.
There is no line between:
~God’s side – you are on the winning side
~Other side – you are on Satan’s side and your only hope is death.”
Yeah, so how are we to believe this isn’t the result of brainwashing.
Any Trekkies here? I am a big fan of the the Next Generation. There was an Ep were Picard was kidnapped by a nasty alien race (romulans?I can’t remember). Anyway, the torturer shows him three lights and asks him how many there are. He says three. Torturer says there’s four and then starves, beats etc Picard until he says (and truly believes) that there are four lights.
That is what I think of when I see ADULTS blather on and on about demons and faith and blah blah blah.
While probably not physically tortured, being brought up from birth to believe that you’re a sinful piece of garbage that needs constant guidance and forgiveness is clear emotional blackmail.
When a parent constantly treats their child this way, we call it child abuse and (hopefully) we remove the kid from the home. When Gawd’s minions on earth does it, it’s religion.
Ugh.
11 May 2006, on 1:01 pm
Sean, while your creative “editing” is funny, you’ve got nothing on Jim’s original, unexpurgated comment, “Science can prove nothing it is just backed up with evidence which is backed up with more evidence. [Ed. note: I didn’t add that — he actually said that!].”
Jay Leno can’t *pay* his writers to be funnier than that!
11 May 2006, on 1:10 pm
Any Trekkies here? I am a big fan of the the Next Generation. There was an Ep were Picard was kidnapped by a nasty alien race (romulans?I can’t remember). Anyway, the torturer shows him three lights and asks him how many there are. He says three. Torturer says there’s four and then starves, beats etc Picard until he says (and truly believes) that there are four lights
Yup. That was a great episode. The villain was a Cardassian. And the whole scenario was a big ol’ reference to the interrogation in “1984″ — except in Orwell’s book it is fingers instead of lights.
11 May 2006, on 1:11 pm
Yes… Science can prove nothing it is just backed up with evidence which is backed up with more evidence.
Another one for the annoying inside joke list.
THE ARISTOCRATS!
(oh, how the fire crackled!)
11 May 2006, on 1:11 pm
Cardassian
Of course! The Female Genitalia heads. And as for the 1984 reference, I didn’t know that, but I should have. *ashamed*
11 May 2006, on 1:46 pm
I love his dramatic delivery at the end of that episode when resuced. “THERE…ARE…THREE…LIGHTS!!!!”
12 May 2006, on 1:53 am
Patrick Stewart is the man.
Funny how the BattleCryBabies have all gone away and we are left in the aftershocks pondering how we ended up with such ill-educated and easily brainwashed youth.
Like I said… Not my damn fault. I voted for people that would have helped these lost children. They didn’t always win.
Perhaps we should all go undercover as a youth pastors and try to school ‘em subversively.
12 May 2006, on 2:31 pm
It should be no shocker that people half your age couldn’t compete in grammar, education, or draw the same conclusions it took you 20+ years to come by. The same level of embarrassment would come in a forum of experienced pastors going back and fourth with 15 year old Bevis and Butthead fans, but with less insult and disrespect. (Though admittedly I too got a good laugh out of some of your responses.) There is a difference between atheists and anti-Christians; anti-Christians are biased against that religion specifically because of bad personal experiences or interactions. But many who come to God later in life are spurned to do so by bad experiences in the secular world. If bitterness incited your deconversion doesn’t that take away from the objectivity you claim to hold in regards to reason and logic? That being said, our reasons for accepting God or not believing in Him at all should not be based on standing on the weakness of others. Weakness and discontent are universal to believers and unbelievers alike. I guess I’ll stop here for now and allow you to dictate the next phase of conversation (or debate.)
12 May 2006, on 2:51 pm
“It should be no shocker that people half your age couldn’t compete in grammar, education, or draw the same conclusions it took you 20+ years to come by”
How do you know they are the age they claim to be? What if they don’t claim an age? And it didn’t take me 20 years to come to my conclusions. You won’t get far here if assumptions and strawmen are your basis for debate.
For my part, I don’t trust anyone who states their age to be telling the truth, as more often than not one’s age is completely irrelevant to the conversation. It’s either used as a bragging point “look at how smart I am at 17!” or a way to elicit sympathy “don’t be so mean! he’s only 15!”.
“The same level of embarrassment would come in a forum of experienced pastors going back and fourth with 15 year old Bevis and Butthead fans, but with less insult and disrespect.”
True. But it seems like you’re implying here that it’s okay for them to insult, but they shouldn’t be expected to take it?
“There is a difference between atheists and anti-Christians; anti-Christians are biased against that religion specifically because of bad personal experiences or interactions.”
Agreed.
“But many who come to God later in life are spurned to do so by bad experiences in the secular world.”
Disagree. Many who come to religion later in life are spurred to do so by tragic occurances in their life. Someone dies, someone gets sick, someone breaks their heart. This has nothing to with secular or not.
“If bitterness incited your deconversion doesn’t that take away from the objectivity you claim to hold in regards to reason and logic?”
Perhaps in the beginning, or if this person doesn’t further their study. I was this type in the beginning. But, read some books on atheism, the problems with faith and logic and it stops being about “getting back” at anyone or thing. I dug deeper and replaced the bitterness with reason and logic.
“That being said, our reasons for accepting God or not believing in Him at all should not be based on standing on the weakness of others.”
Can you elaborate?
“Weakness and discontent are universal to believers and unbelievers alike.”
Agreed.
“I guess I’ll stop here for now and allow you to dictate the next phase of conversation (or debate.) ”
Understand something, those that get berated or mocked are those that came in without the intention to share ideas. They come with the intent to preach and convert. Many of us on this site have been at this a while. We see the same lies, distortions, and ignorance of their own religion over and over again. And it doesn’t ever seem to change. This is deeply frustrating. Fuses can grow short, but they are not sparked by honesty or reasonableness.
12 May 2006, on 3:32 pm
George: I have many letters and compositions from my teen years — written by me and by my friends — that make it abundantly clear that the BattleCry idiots who came in here are fantastically undereducated compared to kids just a few decades ago. You don’t learn to string a sentence together when you are in your mid-30s. That is something that has to be developed when you are young. These kids are functionally illiterate and will be pumping gas and flinging burgers all their lives. Not one of them could get a job with those writing skills in any office I have ever worked in.
Also, we were reading and writing about things like quasars, blackholes and the age of the universe in 7th grade. These kids seem to be so uneducated in science that they accept the braindead argument that the earth is 6,000 years old and dinosaurs were just giant, old lizards. I knew more than this when I was 8 years old and visiting the Museum of Natural History.
These are some of the dumbest young people I have encountered, in real life or cyberspace.
Also, I personally have no bitterness about religion from personal experience. I was not indoctrinated. I came to hate religious fundamentalism of all stripes as an adult — and in fact only in the past decade — as I have seen it tearing this country, and this planet, apart. It is a scourge, the worst we face, since it encompasses all other scourges (war, destruction of the environment, prejudice, etc.).
12 May 2006, on 3:39 pm
Personally, I saw eight lights- and a pretty, floating pile of entrails from a six-year old. O how they glisten!
12 May 2006, on 5:39 pm
Christianity cannot be blamed for today’s poor education system regardless of your political or religious (non-religious beliefs). Christian based foundations run many schools in this country. Do you contend that public schools are vastly superior or that no formal education would be better? I want to clarify that I agree there is a great divide in education, but I attribute it to the fact that baseball players and (kind of) singers/actors make millions per year compared to our teachers who are paid less than a famous persons assistants assistant. If our society wakes up to this the government will conform as well. Most Americans are too wrapped up in their new cell phone features or American Idol to be concerned about improving our education. I am beginning to think we’ll need to turn the next presidential race into a reality show so we can get a good voter turnout, haha.
Now to elaborate on arguing our beliefs based on the weakness of others; I have yet to find and race or belief system where you can’t find people who lack intellect or common sense. I cannot base my beliefs on any poor sample of people. Atheism doesn’t have different denominations or sects, (I refer to those who believe there is no God, as opposed to those who say there isn’t, but are actually anti-God which, is a self-defeating contradiction), but you cannot deny that Christianity is greatly divided in regards to hell, heaven, and doctrine. Despite that division they all believe a few fundamental truths: There is a God, He created the world, we are spiritual beings, and there is life after death. Most of the debate I have read from you, (though clever), doesn’t deal with any of these ideas, but rather political, social, or moral discrepancies distributed differently through the different denominations and versions of Christianity.
Here is my question for you; if there is no God, is there at least innate morality, or would I be “Piggy” on the “Lord of the Flies”?
12 May 2006, on 6:11 pm
Christianity cannot be blamed for today’s poor education system regardless of your political or religious (non-religious beliefs). Christian based foundations run many schools in this country. Do you contend that public schools are vastly superior or that no formal education would be better?
Nope. Just pointing out that these kids are dumb as soap dishes, which is probably why they believe shit like Ken Hovind’s dinosaur fairy tales — oh, and the bible. Didn’t say the bible necessarily made them stupid… More like their stupidity has made them ripe for indoctrination.
It’s not possible to be anti-God as an atheist, by the way. I guess you were kind of making that point. It is possible to be anti-religion, and you can damn well bet I am. It’s the scourge of humanity. If we don’t evolve past it, it will destroy us.
You’re wrong that we have not argued morality, spirituality, life after death, etc. This web site has been around a number of years. You should read a lot more of it before you say that.
Try sorting the site by the subject “Religion” and going back in time using the calendar on the right.
Here is just one of hundreds of examples of the types of topics you think we don’t discuss.
We have also discussed morality at length many, many times. I think a lot of atheists believe that morality is derived from social necessity. It benefits us to cooporate and treat each other well, so most of us do. One thing I can say about every atheist I know: we resent the suggestion that one cannot be moral without god/gods. In fact, we feel we can successfully argue that one can be far more ethical when one doesn’t have supernatural justification for one’s actions. Certainly the atheists I know through this site seem a lot more ethical and honest than any religious types who have come through here.
12 May 2006, on 7:13 pm
Here is a video I just came across on CNN about a researcher in Germany testing altruism in toddlers:
http://tinyurl.com/e5okr
Seems to suggest we come with both selfish and altruistic traits. I can see where both traits would need to evolve and become part of our basic instincts.
13 May 2006, on 1:01 am
I wish I had more time to read backwards in the site because it is interesting conversation and I have only read since May 3rd. I appreciate when atheists do admit and abide by some sort of moral code because regardless of their stance on the divine I think it is key in religion and society as well. (Thanks for the link.)
I wish to be frank with you about the “soap dish” kids; Most of the posts I saw about this site were to pray for and love you as people while respecting your opinions. I know that doesn’t fit into your beliefs but I hope you realize that not everyone is a brainwashed fraud and hopes to control you mentally, financially, or politically. Most of our intentions are based on believing the truth we “preach”.
If we are right, it is good that we shared, if we are wrong there is nothing for you to lose.
What I am trying to say is that I hope you can at least appreciate the sentiment of care from a stranger. I am not blind to corruption, manipulation, or man made rituals, but I will face them whether a Christian or not; and for my part, I would rather face them with the hope of something more than myself. There are many followers of Christ who don’t condemn to hell, that’s not my role.
If I die, and there is no God or heaven, I am satisfied that I tried to live an honest, unselfish, and meaningful (even if only by hope/faith) life.
On a side note, I didn’t say you cannot be both an atheist and anti-Christian, I said there is a difference.
I’m not interested in going back and forth too much because I have slightly neglected my wife that last 2 days trying to read and catch up. Thank you for your ears and comments, it’s been fun. I think I’ll poke around the rest of the site for a minute before I go.
13 May 2006, on 1:37 am
I wish to be frank with you about the “soap dish” kids; Most of the posts I saw about this site were to pray for and love you as people while respecting your opinions. I know that doesn’t fit into your beliefs but I hope you realize that not everyone is a brainwashed fraud and hopes to control you mentally, financially, or politically. Most of our intentions are based on believing the truth we “preach”.
And sorry, but we think you’re full of shit, and there is no truth in what you preach, no evidence whatsoever for your god, but a heap of historical evidence proving that belief in the supernatural leads to persecution and misery.
If we are right, it is good that we shared, if we are wrong there is nothing for you to lose.
Please read up on Pascal’s Wager… We have heard it a thousand times:
http://atheism.about.com/od/argumentsforgod/a/pascalswager.htm
What I am trying to say is that I hope you can at least appreciate the sentiment of care from a stranger.
Yes. Unfortunately religious types, especially Xians, have proven yourselves utterly untrustworthy when it comes to charity without imposing your beliefs on others. Even to the point of denying charity to those who won’t convert to their beliefs. Example:
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2005/janfeb/tsunami.php
I am not blind to corruption, manipulation, or man made rituals, but I will face them whether a Christian or not; and for my part, I would rather face them with the hope of something more than myself. There are many followers of Christ who don’t condemn to hell, that’s not my role.
Good. Because hell doesn’t exist. And any “loving” god who would allow such a place to exist, or allow infinite punishment for finite crimes, is psychotic in our eyes, and so is anyone who would believe in such a god. Or at least they are temporarily psychotic when they are talking about him. It certainly has no place in rational discourse.
Go here to find out how atheists find more than themselves without belief in vengeful, needy, childish gods:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5015557
If I die, and there is no God or heaven, I am satisfied that I tried to live an honest, unselfish, and meaningful (even if only by hope/faith) life.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if you could do that without the crutch and excuse of religion? Just because you wanted to? And give yourself credit for it, rather than giving credit to some backwards, hateful belief system — filled with fire and damnation and cruelty and bigotry — constructed by some primitive desert nomads?
I’m not interested in going back and forth too much because I have slightly neglected my wife that last 2 days trying to read and catch up. Thank you for your ears and comments, it’s been fun. I think I’ll poke around the rest of the site for a minute before I go.
This isn’t meant as an insult, but if you spend a few weeks on the site reading before you comment again, you might come to realize that everything we have just discussed with you has already been discussed in great detail (and vastly more, in fact) with every other theist that has come here. It’s all been covered. We have answered these queries a thousand times. Yet we are still patient with those who do not scream at us that we are going to hell.
Please take the nasty shit I said about your beliefs with a grain of salt. I mean, I have animosity toward what it does to people, but I have no animosity to you. Sometimes we just get tired of hearing it the same way over and over. Trust that we are good people with families and loved ones and good friends (a friend of mine died today, in fact, yet here I am writing this to you — reaching out to humanity! what a concept for an atheist, eh? we must not be monsters after all)… Yet we DON’T BELIEVE. We really don’t believe. Please accept and trust us on that. Not only that, we feel without exception that our lives are better without false beliefs. Listen to that NPR link of Penn Jillette above. Really listen to what he is trying to say. Please. And thanks for stopping by.
Peace.
S
13 May 2006, on 1:37 am
If I die, and there is no God or heaven, I am satisfied that I tried to live an honest, unselfish, and meaningful (even if only by hope/faith) life.
This response always chaps my ass. Someone will post the link to the description of this argument, but I’m not “with it” enough to do the linking right now.
Why not take the next logical step, George? I think if you spoke with a few atheists, you’d find that for the most part we’re all extremely moral and conscience of our impact on our little slice of the world.
You expect us to “appreciate the entiment of care from a stranger”, well, umm, ok, but what the fuck? Nobody asked for your caring, although it certainly can’t hurt. Perhaps you believe that we need your caring? No, we don’t.
“I would rather face them with the hope of something more than myself”
Why? I’m honestly curious why you feel you need something more than yourself to face corruption manipulation or man-made rituals. Has there ever, in your life, been a time where you faced-off against one fo these bad things and you received assistance from “something more than” yourself? What has your experience been?
I think you’ll find that you are perfectly capable of meeting the challenges of life all by your lonesome. If you need help, there are very real, and very powerful people out there to give you guidance and/or assistance and not a one of them are supernatural.
I’m not only anti-Christian, I’m anti-theology of all flavors. A belief in a “higher-power” is indicative of mental illness. I think you mean well, but you’re deluded. Don’t you realize that all your good, nice, pure, thoughts and morals can all be accomplished without any Gods? Don’t you? Why not?
14 May 2006, on 9:34 am
[...] Thanks to reader Kevin for the pointer to TruthDig’s coverage of Fear and Loathing at Philadelphia’s BattleCry. (More post on BattleCry here and here and here, or just try this.) Go read it yourself; but here a a couple tibits to make you want to: Throughout the three and a half hours of BattleCry’s first session, I thought of only one analogy that fit the experience: This must have been what it felt like to watch the Hitler Youth, filled with self-righteous pride, proclaim the supremacy of their beliefs and their willingness to shed blood for them… [...]
14 May 2006, on 11:41 am
Thank you for your response Sean.
Randy, why would you ask for my experience with the supernatural, you wouldn’t believe me if I told you. Don’t be ridicules. It sound like you are in this for the debate and will write any response you think will serve your purpose.
“I think you’ll find that you are perfectly capable of meeting the challenges of life all by your lonesome…”
Are you serious? Then why do you need this website as an outlet? You are the one who would call me self-righteous, how’s that for irony. For the sake of other reasonable atheists don’t be so ignorant and careless with your words, or they’ll start to think you secretly converted to ruin their reputation.
“Nobody asked for your caring, although it certainly can’t hurt. Perhaps you believe that we need your caring? No, we don’t.”
Just because I believe in God doesn’t mean I can understand what you were trying to say in that line… we didn’t ask for it, it can’t hurt, you think we need it, we don’t… do you want to try that again without undermining yourself in the same sentence.
(What I just commented is not relative to my belief in God but relative to a “mental illness” called reason.)
Regardless of religious belief humans are social beings and demand a certain level of interaction with each other. Helping each other is a good thing, so argue God doesn’t exist, but don’t argue against good will.
14 May 2006, on 2:11 pm
George Says:
Randy, why would you ask for my experience with the supernatural, you wouldn’t believe me if I told you. Don’t be ridicules. It sound like you are in this for the debate and will write any response you think will serve your purpose.
What are you in it for, random-fuck? To “save” us?
“I think you’ll find that you are perfectly capable of meeting the challenges of life all by your lonesome…”
Are you serious? Then why do you need this website as an outlet? You are the one who would call me self-righteous, how’s that for irony. For the sake of other reasonable atheists don’t be so ignorant and careless with your words, or they’ll start to think you secretly converted to ruin their reputation.
This web site is equivalent to spending every waking minute if your life believing some magical man in the sky is watching over you? You’re deluded beyond belief. Also, Randy meant exactly what he said. Atheists, you see, give themselves credit when they overcome life’s obstacles, thereby growing stronger and wiser — instead of constantly thanking some magical garden gnome for helping them through their tribulations.
“Nobody asked for your caring, although it certainly can’t hurt. Perhaps you believe that we need your caring? No, we don’t.”
Just because I believe in God doesn’t mean I can understand what you were trying to say in that line… we didn’t ask for it, it can’t hurt, you think we need it, we don’t… do you want to try that again without undermining yourself in the same sentence.
What a coincidence. Because I choose a rational course in life, I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
(What I just commented is not relative to my belief in God but relative to a “mental illness” called reason.)
You believe reason is a mental illness?
Oh my.
Uh. That’s right up there with another one of our favorite recent idiot Xian comments: “Science can’t prove anything. It is only backed up by evidence, which is backed up by more evidence.”
14 May 2006, on 2:13 pm
Oh, and Georgie… Do you believe gay people have the same rights as you do? Do you believe they should be allowed to marry those they love, just like you can?
No?
Then fuck your supposed “good will.” It doesn’t exist.
14 May 2006, on 2:26 pm
Randy, why would you ask for my experience with the supernatural, you wouldn’t believe me if I told you.
I’m not asking you so I can see if I’ll believe you or not. You can rest assured that I will not believe you. I ask so that I can ascertain your level of delusion which will tell me a lot about how I should speak to you.
“I think you’ll find that you are perfectly capable of meeting the challenges of life all by your lonesome…”
Are you serious? Then why do you need this website as an outlet? You are the one who would call me self-righteous, how’s that for irony.
I’m not following you, George. I don’t think you understood my point. I’m saying, for the most part you have handled every challenge in your life all by yourself without the assistance of any deity. In the next sentence (which you neglected to take into account in your response) I also explained that if you ever encounter a challenge that you aren’t having much success with, there are plenty of real-life human beings out in the world who are happy to help you out. Again, not a diety or god in the lot. Real people. Real challenges. Real solutions. No diety.
So, I ask you again, where have you found that your diety has helped you to get through any challenges of life? You don’t have to detail the actual vision of a burning bush, just describe how your deity helped you.
Just because I believe in God doesn’t mean I can understand what you were trying to say in that line… we didn’t ask for it, it can’t hurt, you think we need it, we don’t… do you want to try that again without undermining yourself in the same sentence.
Sure, let me try it again. Thanks for asking me to help you with your understanding, it’s the least I can do:
When you say, “What I am trying to say is that I hope you can at least appreciate the sentiment of care from a stranger.” I’m curious why you feel like we need your help? Caring from a stranger doesn’t hurt, as long as it’s just a quiet feeling of caring. The problems come in when that stranger starts trying to “help” others who don’t want it. In this case by “praying”, which is offensive to me, but mostly harmless, to trying to “save” some stranger’s soul which can take on all kinds of nasty forms, even as bad as forced “exorcism” rituals. Now, your sentence was a little hard to understand since it didn’t have proper grammar, but I am trying to work with you here, George. So, regarding Christians caring about my soul, I do *not* appreciate the sentiment of caring from a stranger, but I’ll ignore it as long as they keep it to themselves.
Regardless of religious belief humans are social beings and demand a certain level of interaction with each other. Helping each other is a good thing, so argue God doesn’t exist, but don’t argue against good will.
I agree. I interact with many different types of people and my friends come from all walks of life. The common trait between them all is a tolerance for other’s beliefs. My Christian friends do not preach to me and are not offended when I walk off when they start talking about church. I don’t argue with them and they don’t argue with me. We enjoy each other’s company regardless. A few of these Christians are in the cool little jazz band they have at their church and can really play well and I enjoy hearing them. We all help each other out as well.
My beef is only with Christians who are trying to “help” me by saving my soul. I don’t want or need yours or anyone else’s help with my soul, fuck you very much. In my experience soul-saving Christians have been the most delusional.
However, argue against good will? If it’s secular good will, like that that I practice each and every day, I welcome it. If it’s theological good will, keep it to yourself and your little moronic Christian friends. If all you were talking about was normal everyday be excellent to each other type of good will, well then… my apologies. I misunderstood.
Oh, and I’m perfectly capable of making an ass of myself around here and am fully aware of it. I’ve done it a few times already and I’m a relative newcomer.
14 May 2006, on 5:26 pm
I want you both to understand, I am not trying to save or convince you. This is fun. I get to play “devils advocate”.
I do believe in God but It’s not my role to convince anyone. You guys are sharp and I enjoy debate, as a matter of fact, I have often times challenged other Christians on their beliefs, which as you know, isn’t always hard. They should consider the weight of their creed. You guys present a mental challenge.
(I don’t think reason is a mental illness, I was borrowing your debate tactic, and I failed. I am not as good at taking that approach as you.) I will continue to check out the site from time to time, but I will try to refrain from religious debate because it seems that it bores you already.
Last thing, in regards to Sean’s “gay rights” “good will” argument. Universal and equal rights/acceptance isn’t the same as good will. Some people like to have farm sex but that doesn’t mean I will honor their “right” to do that. (No, I’m not saying that’s like being gay.)
“Rights” are established by morality and/or society. You don’t want to be preached to about “fairytales”, and I don’t want my children taught or unnecessarily exposed to gay parades. I don’t want that agenda pushed on her anymore than you want my agenda pushed on you.
If you are concerned about rights and equality, that ideal is a utopia that seems even farther than the idea of heaven to me. But I won’t discredit you for continuing to work towards what you believe.
Thanks for your ears. (Happy mothers day, if applicative.)
14 May 2006, on 5:57 pm
Last thing, in regards to Sean’s “gay rights” “good will” argument. Universal and equal rights/acceptance isn’t the same as good will. Some people like to have farm sex but that doesn’t mean I will honor their “right” to do that. (No, I’m not saying that’s like being gay.)
Ouch. Sorry you went there. That took you down a peg in my eyes. The old “farm sex” analogy. You disclaimed it, and yet you used it. That’s like saying something to the jury you know will be struck from the record. Too late, you said it.
That is the most vitriolic and hateful speech. Gay people — know any? I know lots and they are usually wonderful people. So wonderful it makes me ponder sometimes if being nice is biological. Anyway, they don’t have sex with farm animals any more than straight people do. In fact, they probably do so far less. And they don’t have an “agenda” other than to be allowed to live freely and have the same rights that you do. When you say that you don’t want them to have equal rights, then you are the one with an agenda.
Why do anti-gay people not see themselves to be just as prejudiced as those that fought the black civil rights movement? It is the same exact thing. They are adults, they are informed, they are engaged in consensual behavior… And you believe they don’t have the same rights as you? Wow. That to me is only one thing: bigotry.
As for rights (Why do you put that in quotes, as if rights among consensual, informed adults is a relative thing? Do you want to tell me what I can do in my bedroom?), the Declaration of Independence says this:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator [Please, no stupid comments about an atheist quoting this... It was the style of language of the day.] with certain unalienable Rights.”
Notice it does not say what George Orwell’s pigs said: “But some are more equal than others.”
Homosexuality, by the way, isn’t taught. It simply exists. Find me a gay person, other than some brainwashed born again, who believes he/she was “taught” to be gay.
When your child turns out to be gay, you should be all too happy (if you are a good parent) to allow them to feel accepted and loved… And to go where they need to and associate with other gay people in order to find out more about themselves, especially as an oppressed minority.
14 May 2006, on 5:59 pm
So what’s the problem with having your children exposed to gay parades? Hell, my ex-wife was “married” to a woman for a few years and my young daughter isn’t any less heterosexual today. What’s your problem with having your child taught about gay people? You know, there’s lots of gay people in the world, some of which you might even like.
I really just don’t get what Christians have against homosexuals. Well, for that matter, I don’t get what *anyone* has against homosexuals. Or people of different races, etc. I suppose that’s the age-old question. It’s just that the anti-gay rhetoric of late is just so obviously manipulated by those in power.
Those poor Christian believers just don’t stand a chance against anyone in authority with an agenda, do they? Witches! Communists! Liberals! Homosexuals! As long as they can be worked up into a froth by proclamation, they’ll continue to be worked up into a froth about something. Sad, really.
14 May 2006, on 6:01 pm
Those poor Christian believers just don’t stand a chance against anyone in authority with an agenda, do they? Witches! Communists! Liberals! Homosexuals! As long as they can be worked up into a froth by proclamation, they’ll continue to be worked up into a froth about something. Sad, really.
Well said. And it’s both sad and scary.
15 May 2006, on 7:30 am
“Most of the posts I saw about this site were to pray for and love you as people while respecting your opinions”
I find that very hard to believe.
“Most of our intentions are based on believing the truth we “preach”.”
I have a question. Why do you have so little faith in the power of your supposedly all-powerful god that you have to do his work for him?
“Are you serious? Then why do you need this website as an outlet? You are the one who would call me self-righteous, how’s that for irony. For the sake of other reasonable atheists don’t be so ignorant and careless with your words, or they’ll start to think you secretly converted to ruin their reputation.”
Well, it didn’t take this oh-so-good xian long to become insulting, did it. Poor silly little George – the website part of the path. Goodness, perhaps you shouldn’t be so careless and SO INCREDIBLY ignorant with your words if you hope to improve the stereotype of xians.
“Just because I believe in God doesn’t mean I can understand what you were trying to say in that line… we didn’t ask for it, it can’t hurt, you think we need it, we don’t… do you want to try that again without undermining yourself in the same sentence.”
So because you believe in god you can’t read? Is this how you expect to elevate respect for you kind?
15 May 2006, on 7:35 am
“I want you both to understand, I am not trying to save or convince you. This is fun. I get to play “devils advocate”. ”
This is me rolling my eyes. I love it when they come here and think they’re doing anything more than wasting space. Does this guy really think he’s plowing new fields?
“I do believe in God but It’s not my role to convince anyone.”
Your own posts prove this to be a lie.
“I will continue to check out the site from time to time, but I will try to refrain from religious debate because it seems that it bores you already.”
This is not your fault. Xians come by and say the same dumb things over and over again. There’s never anything new or anything that hasn’t been debunked.
“Rights” are established by morality and/or society. You don’t want to be preached to about “fairytales”, and I don’t want my children taught or unnecessarily exposed to gay parades. I don’t want that agenda pushed on her anymore than you want my agenda pushed on you.”
That remarkable difference here is that you chose your religion. You chose a religion that is a guise for bigotry. Their “agenda” is to have the same rights you enjoy. Your agenda is to deny them their basic human rights. If I had kids I would absolutely keep them far away from bigots like you.
16 May 2006, on 12:48 pm
You quoted the declaration of independence? The writer had slaves.
“That they are endowed by their Creator [Please, no stupid comments about an atheist quoting this… It was the style of language of the day.] ”
“Style of language” who is the delusional one?
FYI- 6 out of 9 of the people I work with are gay. I love them and they know it. They know about my beliefs and are not offended because they know me; they know I do not esteem myself higher than them. I know you will say it’s not true whom I work with because it’s not fitting of your blind accusations. You assuming that Christians are all the same are just a different type of bias racism.
16 May 2006, on 12:58 pm
“I love them and they know it.”
Love them like LOVE them or “love” them in that “pretend-we-love-them-so-we-can-call-them-evil-vile-sinners-who-will-burn-in-hell” way the xians “love” so much?
“I know you will say it’s not true whom I work with because it’s not fitting of your blind accusations.”
Spare me the armchair psychoanalysis. You don’t know anything about any of us. . How do I know what you post is true? Typical xian – giving us antecdotes as evidence.
“You assuming that Christians are all the same are just a different type of bias racism.”
Actually, genius, it’s not racism at all. The word you’re fishing for is bigotry. But for the second time now, this is born of repeatedly being exposed to the same immoral bullshit from xians over and over again. You’re the not the first to say idiotically bigoted things and then recant trying to show us how full of love you are. And then go on to insult us.
FYI – If you want to lie and cry foul, you might want to make sure your bullshit objections haven’t already been explained or debunked first.
16 May 2006, on 1:23 pm
You quoted the declaration of independence? The writer had slaves.
Hint, there was more than one writer, genius. And yes, some had slaves. So what? It was a different time. That doesn’t change the intellectual purity of the document. Are you saying we should ignore the document and go back to having slaves?
“That they are endowed by their Creator [Please, no stupid comments about an atheist quoting this… It was the style of language of the day.] ”
“Style of language” who is the delusional one?
Not me, idiot. First you point out the fact that they had slaves, thereby acknowledging that it was a vastly different culture, and yet you can’t get your head around the simple fact that they used God metaphorically and colorfully in speech, without always literally meaning God?
Why are yoy bypassing every argument I make with some stupid response? Oh, because you are Xian.
So, despite what the Declaration of Independence says, people should be able to own slaves and treat gay people as second class citizens. If I were your supposed gay friends, I would disown you.
I assume you attempt to call me delusional was based on the modern, brainwashed idea that America was founded as a Christian nation. It most explicitly was not:
You quoted the declaration of independence? The writer had slaves.
“That they are endowed by their Creator [Please, no stupid comments about an atheist quoting this… It was the style of language of the day.] ”
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html
http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.php
16 May 2006, on 1:25 pm
I wonder if George’s gay friends would love him if they knew he compares their sex life to bestiality.
17 May 2006, on 6:56 am
I wonder if that’s why he’s so obsessed with beastiality.
17 May 2006, on 9:02 pm
Wow. This thread sure has grown since I last checked in! Good going, Sean.
31 August 2006, on 7:41 am
[...] Our old pal Uncle Ron again. This guy should be taken to court for the mental torture of children. Does that girl on the right look like she’s ready for the rapture — or a 5×5 padded cell? [...]
10 December 2006, on 10:28 am
I am soo sad for myself. It is terrible that I believe in a god that does not exist because I live a life of fear and self-centeredness.
…I WILL
for you tho.
Jack
You cowardly trolls always leave your messages buried in the archives because you just want to do your gawdly duty even if no one will read it as if that earns you some brown-noser points with your imaginary friend.
19 January 2007, on 1:32 pm
I think that you people have no formal education at all
And we think you are a dumbass drive-by troll who can’t read.
7 February 2007, on 8:48 pm
so….can you prove God DOESN’T exist??
I can’t even scientifically prove I brushed my teeth yesterday…much less prove my god exists, so good luck! I’m an idiot xian troll! yay, more brownie points for my imaginary friend!
You xians are making the claim that a god exists, It is up to YOU to provide evidence that this god exists outside the realm of your own mind. And quit wasting your life away for a cult.