1 December 2005 by Sharona
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1 December 2005, on 11:53 am
Why so much swearing? That story works out great. The pharmacists keep up their moral standards by refusing to give out abortion pills. The pharmacies get to fire the workers for not doing their job. That’s how capitalism is supposed to work.
1 December 2005, on 11:56 am
Even simpler: Don’t work in a field that imposes on your morals. I’m not a “Professional Baby-Eater” for a good reason…
1 December 2005, on 12:16 pm
Regarding swearing … I guess if you don’t have a uterus and don’t regularly have your reproductive rights impinged, then I guess the topic is not a big deal. I do and have, so to emphasize the “big dealness” of the issue, I suppose I swear.
As far as capitalism working properly, you’d think it would be like that, but then a bunch of the right-wing nuts get together and oops, there goes my right to complain against the pharmacist who refuses to do his job properly because suddenly it’s OK for guys to decide that their god doesn’t want me to use a pill to discard the three-day-old blob of a cell cluster.
It’s a problem. Although, I like Rockstar’s solution: Don’t be a pharmacist if you can’t handle the ethics of doing your job.
1 December 2005, on 12:48 pm
I’m not a “Professional Baby-Eater” for a good reason…
It’s your turn to buy me a keyboard.
1 December 2005, on 12:55 pm
You’re welcome
1 December 2005, on 1:05 pm
Sharona – the swearing is not only totally justified, it’s too infrequent. This issue gets me very upset. It’s good to see a corporation grow some balls and stand up to this childish asshatery.
1 December 2005, on 2:07 pm
Impinge on your rights to choose. The profanity is immature. Profanity is a crutch for the conversational cripple. Back to the pharmacy, the pharmacy has the right to fire someone for any reason not just for refusing to dispense. Rape and incest are two hard topics, however GOD has a purpose for everything he does. The child should live. If you don’t believe in GOD then you had better be right, cause the alternative is fire for eternity. A three day old blob of a cell cluster. Within 24 hours their is neurological and physiological processes going on in the fetus. It is a human from the point of conception. Two humans joined to make it. Birth doesn’t make you human, conception does. Everyone who wants abortion doesn’t want to be held accountable for their actions. Let’s change the baby to HIV. Guess what the Doctor can’t just cut that out. You lay down open your legs, yet you don’t want the consequence. (Guys this is for you to…) Come on people grow up and give the babies in your womb the same opportunity that your parents afforded you. If you can’t live with the consequences then don’t do it. You’re just lucky that a baby can just be cut out, you get HIV and you can bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.
1 December 2005, on 2:26 pm
I’m with the ladies on this one. A man can never truly grasp the emotional power of this issue. How many of these pharmacists were women? I bet not a one. And women who do work against their own reproductive rights (ie: the person formerly known as Jane Roe) are quite simply fucking brainwashed — no different from some of this country’s working class, who sadly and repeatedly vote against their own interests.
1 December 2005, on 3:49 pm
Conception: true beginning. If you conceive an idea it’s the beginning of an idea, right? Why wouldn’t a baby CONCEIVED in the womb be concidered the beginning of life? Or do we have to wait 9 months to figure out if the idea is really an idea or not. Reproductive rights…, Huh? Yes you have the right to reproduce, however some of you I wouldn’t recommend it. The choice is to reproduce or not reproduce, not once I have reproduced to terminate the reproduction. The choice to not reproduce is to be done before sexual intercourse. But we as humans can’t help ourselves so lets just (I’ll be polite) “terminate” the child. Abortion is murder and everyone who has an abortion should be held accountable for that murder. I agree with the brainwashed part. I had a biology professor in college that put all kinds of unproven theories on the board and just unfounded junk, 45 minutes into the 50 minute class I finally raised my hand to let the prof. know that I didn’t read any of what he had put on the board in the text book. He slammed down his chalk and said, “Finally someone in going to question the “SHIT”(quoted from him) I have been putting on the board for the last 45 minutes.” Long story short: He said “Just because I am a tenured prof. with my doctorate doesn’t mean I’m right all the time. Question everything.” Don’t let others make up your mind for you. Think about it, research it, question it. Then make up your own mind. These are my thoughts. GOD Bless all of you.
1 December 2005, on 3:50 pm
If you don’t believe in GOD then you had better be right, cause the alternative is fire for eternity.
Oh, Pascal’s Wager again. Great.
My retort:
You had better believe in Gorlock the Mighty, cause the alternative is fire for eternity!
See how silly it sounds?
And colorful metaphors are not immature. They are used for emphasis…fuckhead.
1 December 2005, on 3:54 pm
“Just because I am a tenured prof. with my doctorate doesn’t mean I’m right all the time. Question everything.” Don’t let others make up your mind for you. Think about it, research it, question it. Then make up your own mind. These are my thoughts.
You should take your own advice then.
1 December 2005, on 4:13 pm
“Impinge on your rights to choose. The profanity is immature. Profanity is a crutch for the conversational cripple.”
Actually, “profanity” is just a imagined affront to prudish sensibilities. They’re just words. Grow up.
“Rape and incest are two hard topics, however GOD has a purpose for everything he does.”
Ah, so GOD likes rape and incest. The bible would agree with that.
“The child should live.”
There is no child, liar.
” If you don’t believe in GOD then you had better be right, cause the alternative is fire for eternity.”
Pascal’s Wager is a pathetic and flaccid “argument”.
“You lay down open your legs, yet you don’t want the consequence. . . . .If you can’t live with the consequences then don’t do it.”
Hear that girls? It’s all YOUR FAULT if you’re raped.
“You’re just lucky that a baby can just be cut out, you get HIV and you can bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.”
There is no baby, liar. But what a lovely Christian way to end a dumbass post.
1 December 2005, on 4:15 pm
“GOD Bless all of you. ”
There’s nothing even worht responding to in that shit fest. Yet another disrespectful, lying asshat theist. Do you guys get group rates, or something?
1 December 2005, on 4:51 pm
“I had a biology professor in college …”
University degrees are like girlfriends- everyone on the internet claims to have one.
1 December 2005, on 4:55 pm
I have one not. At least there’s one guy who admits it. I always tell my folks I moved to Lincoln, NE to drop out of college.
1 December 2005, on 5:17 pm
Uh, Jeff… what exactly is your point about HIV? Whether you think someone contracted HIV because of irresponsibility, or otherwise, surely you would want that person to have treatment available? Or is your postion that everyone should always have to bear the worst possible consequence of their actions, even if by ‘actions’ you mean ‘any situation in which they ever find themselves, including those completely outside their control’? That’s certainly how that comes off. There *is* a genuine case to be made that an unborn child may have rights that can overrule the wishes of the mother, and there does need to be proper debate on this issue, with more interest in arriving at a solution than in compromising between prejudices. But I don’t believe, and certainly don’t see that it follows from anything you argue, that a woman who is raped and ends up either pregnant or HIV positive should be denied medical treatment on the grounds that she is ‘merely trying to avoid the consequences of her actions’, and least of all that a pharmacist should be entitled to refuse to fill a prescription already given, based on his own feeling that this is so.
1 December 2005, on 6:30 pm
Clearly, our pal Jeff didn’t pay much attention during biology class, or he wouldn’t be calling cell clusters babies.
Guess what, Jeff? Abortion has been practiced throughout all of human history as a form of species survival. Just because your theology (whose ideas, and current interpretations of those ideas, only cover a tiny fraction of our species’ history) says it is murder, doesn’t make it so. Your ilk made this shit up. Women’s bodies self-abort unhealthy pregnancies. Sometimes, the woman doesn’t even know she was pregnant, she just thinks she is having a heavy period. Why would Dawg build that biological ability into a woman? And does this make Dawg a baby killer? Considering how many miscarriages have happened in human history, I’d say Dawg has killed more babies than anyone, ever.
I had a dear friend years ago who was raped and had an abortion. She was a beautiful person, and probably a lot more ethical than the likes of you. Here’s some profanity for you: FUCK YOU for saying she should be tried for murder after having been raped. That’s it, punish the victim. That’s what you people do. Take comfort in the fact that you have something in common with the worst parts of the fundamentalist Islamic world.
Wait… on second thought, considering your warped attitudes about sex, maybe you don’t deserve to be fucked.
1 December 2005, on 6:58 pm
Jeff,”Within 24 hours their is neurological and physiological processes going on in the fetus.” I would be interested to know where you dug up this information? There may be some physiological processes going on in 24 hours but the nervous system does not begin to develope until the 12- 16 day.
“It is a human from the point of conception. Two humans joined to make it. Birth doesn’t make you human, conception does.”
Conception doesn’t make us human, have you heard of:
“Ontology recapitulates phylogeny.” ( The embryo’s development occurs in the same sequence as its ancestor’s evolution.) Ontology is the history of the development of an individual. Phylogeny is the development and growth of a race or group of individuals.
1 December 2005, on 7:25 pm
Tony: that statement just ain’t so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recapitulation_theory
http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/wells_and_haeckels_embryos/
I can’t say I see its relevance to the point you’re trying to make, either: the ‘conception makes us human’ notion is based either on the idea that a soul enters into the ‘child’ at the point of conception, or that since a blastocyst has human DNA just as a newborn or an adult, it is equally human and possesses the same rights. Unless you wanted to assert that ontogeny includes the development of DNA from that of a single-celled organism to that of a homo sapiens sapiens, going through each ancestral branching point en route, it doesn’t make much sense to bring it up. The ‘human at conception’ assertion specifically denies that outward appearance makes a difference to ‘humanity’.
1 December 2005, on 8:04 pm
“Unless you wanted to assert that ontogeny includes the development of DNA from that of a single-celled organism to that of a homo sapiens sapiens, going through each ancestral branching point en route, it doesn’t make much sense to bring it up.”
Thanks! But what you say is exactly what I was attempting to say.
If there is a soul who decided that it enters at the point of conception? After all is said and done, perhaps the mystical soul is in the sperm. If you follow that line of reasoning you end up with the ficticious soul being in the first piece of DNA that ever evolved.
The argument that your killing a human by using birth control is nonsence, because it makes no-sence except in the minds of those with temporal epilepsy who cannot tell the difference between hallucination and reality.
1 December 2005, on 8:35 pm
At what point does the “soul” enter the “baby” when the “baby” is part rabbit?
Eeehh… What’s up, doc?
1 December 2005, on 9:11 pm
Conception: true beginning. If you conceive an idea it’s the beginning of an idea, right? Why wouldn’t a baby CONCEIVED in the womb be concidered the beginning of life? — Now, Jeff, we all know the meaning of the term “equivocation” around here. “Nobody’s perfect. I’m nobody. Therefore, I’m perfect.” Not a good move.
The profanity is immature. Profanity is a crutch for the conversational cripple. — Well, Jeff, if you paid any attention, you’d see that the usual move around here is: intelligent talk first, profanity next. If you actually took the time to read some posts around here, you’d see that there are intelligent discussions all over the place, a sample (and plug) of which can be found here. But when schmucks like you just pop-in with wacko claims (i.e., there’s a “reason for” the conception-through-rape or the conception-through-incest), it can get annoying. So I’d suggest showing a little tolerance for the profanity, considering the fact that it’s not totally undeserved.
Now go fuck yourself and take your self-righteous idiotic bullshit and shove it up your white xian ass.
(Wow, I feel better already.)
1 December 2005, on 9:28 pm
Bob, can I have a new keyboard for Xmas?
1 December 2005, on 10:29 pm
Anything for a Musketeer, dude.
2 December 2005, on 7:57 am
I feel for the people that have been raped, whether it is by family or someone they don’t know, however we all know that rape and incest only accounts for a small percentage of abortions each day. The majority of abortions are done for intelligent middle class people that can’t seem to take responsibility for their actions. Someone with HIV (and someone who is pregnant) is to have access to any medicine they need to make and keep them healthy. This stating that they have a sickness. A child in the womb is not a sickness. However, both are a lifetime consequence of unprotected sex. True liberalists, to get the meaning of any intended conversation you have to hear the whole thing. I see that many of you intelligent beings have excerpted my statements, any of you work for the media? Cut it to make it fit your neanderlogic. Evolutionists should get that. It’s amazing how scared you are to even put Christ in his proper place, at the beginning of the word CHRISTian and CHRISTmas. I bet all of you take off work during CHRISTmas. Why? Christmas is a holiday celebrating the birth of Christ. I see someone actually got my point about the research. Yes neurological events do occur later, not much later though. The point was that before making uninformed decisions do your research and question everything. For an atheist Christianity has a lot to be questioned. As a Christian I believe. I was raised to believe in Christ and through the course of my life I have been given, through my belief, many evidences of my God’s existance.
Bob- How do you know that I’m white? By the way thank you for the plug… It was interesting. I just stumbled across the site yesterday and really haven’t had time to peruse other plugs. And no I’m not offended by profanity. However, I will stick th knife in to get some colorful responses. I think it’s working so far.:)
2 December 2005, on 8:07 am
Thanks everyone for making the many excellent points you made above. I was too busy to address moronic “arguments” yesterday, but I was glad to see the points I wanted to make appear anyway. It infuriates me how the same ol’ “defense” pro-lifers trot out against abortion appears time and time again with zero actual thought put into the matter. I used to be a pro-lifer — hell, I used to be christian, but I started putting a little thought into the mix and discovered how ridiculously empty it all is.
If you don’t believe in abortion, don’t have one. It’s just that simple. Don’t worry about what anyone else chooses to do with her uterus, whether it’s to have sex or to eliminate superfluous cells–none of your fucking business. I believe your god told you to judge not lest the same (worse, perhaps) fate meets you. Just wait for your god to judge all us baby murderin’, fetus-eatin’ (thanks, Ryan), orgy-of-sex havin’, logical atheists with his fiery, sulphurous fists of wrathful, vengeful, jealous love. Glory!
2 December 2005, on 9:42 am
Evolutionists should get that. It’s amazing how scared you are to even put Christ in his proper place, at the beginning of the word CHRISTian and CHRISTmas. I bet all of you take off work during CHRISTmas. Why? Christmas is a holiday celebrating the birth of Christ.
1) Ok, now I get it. You’re and IDiot who regurgitates everything you’ve been told by your preacher/religioso family/other IDiots.
2) Xmas is not a holiday celebrating the birth of X. It may be to you, but in my home it is a time for family, giving, and eating. A well deserved winter break. Trust me, more people treat it as such.
3) As far as the Xian thing goes, we covered that already. Go act opressed somewhere else.
However, I will stick th knife in to get some colorful responses. I think it’s working so far.:)
Translation: I said a bunch of stupid shit I can’t back up and got called out for it, so now I’m gonna pretend it was on purpose.
Heard that one before. Try again.
2 December 2005, on 10:28 am
You didn’t call me on anything. Say something intelligent, just once. Christmas is the celebration of Christ’s birth. If you notice Jew’s, Muslims, Budhists, Hindus, Taoists, etc,… don’t celebrate Christmas. The idea of giving on this holiday is due completely to Christian beliefs established 2005 years ago. So if you’re giving gifts you are observing the Christian holiday. If you just took the time off work you can say that it is a well deserved winter break. However, you yourself said, “but in my home it is a time for family, ‘giving’, and eating”. So you are, in fact, observing a Christian holiday. Again bending historical facts to suit your own situation. You shouldn’t be giving gifts if it is a winter break. Sit at home with family and eat until your content, but don’t give gifts. It make you a hypocrit to your own belief.
2 December 2005, on 10:37 am
Regurgitates? I’ve established that I research everything before I give any merit to it. My research for the truth through christianity is an ongoing pursuit that will last a lifetime. As should any life affecting belief. I’m sure that you were taught respect as a child. Hopefully you took your parents teaching as though they knew something about it through lifes experience. Yes, somethings you are taught as a child that you immediately give merit to. However, later in life, when your intellect grows, is when you can question the merit of certain information passed on by parents, teachers and friends. I’m guessing that as a child you were probably taught to be an atheist through the modeling of your parents or some sort of fashion. So for you to sit there and say that I regurgitate my information is quite hypocritical.
2 December 2005, on 10:39 am
“However, I will stick th knife in to get some colorful responses. I think it’s working so far.:)”
Translation #2: I’m going spread my xtian love around by lying, slandering and generally acting like a five year old.
Congrats John! You’ve lowered my opinion of xtians even further.
I pity you, really. It must be hard to keep up that level of judgmental bigotry all the time.
2 December 2005, on 10:42 am
“I’m guessing that as a child you were probably taught to be an atheist “
You guess wrong. I was raised an xtian. I spent a total of six years studying xtianity with a bible fellowship and Judaism with a Rabbi. Sorry, John, religion is childish bullshit.
Feel free to remove your ignorant lying foot from your mouth now. Or more likely you will continue you’re brainless regurgitation of nonsense.
2 December 2005, on 11:04 am
Jeff, you’re funny- you punctuate like my nephew (he’s eight).
2 December 2005, on 11:07 am
However, later in life, when your intellect grows, is when you can question the merit of certain information passed on by parents, teachers and friends.
Again, perhaps you should take your own advice…
Has anyone ever seen 12 Angry Men? This Jeff guy reminds me of the racist guy at the end who gets on his soapbox. One by one the other jurors turn their backs and walk away as his ignorant proselytizing gets sillier and sillier.
2 December 2005, on 11:23 am
Saying that I’m lying says that you have a certain level of proof. I haven’t seen nor heard one single shred of proof. It’s Jeff, by the way. Just unintelligible bantar. Atheism is a religion, a religion without a GOD. I like the spreading Christian Love part, but lying and slandering. Where did that come from. Acting like a five year old, we should all be so lucky to have the purity of a five year old. Please feel free to back anything you disagree with, with actual facts. Ninety percent of the things you live with in the American culture was based on Christianity. Where do you think the laws of the land came from. Our constitution was written with Christian morals at the forefront. If it violated one of the ten commandments it didn’t get into the constitution. Not all of the founding fathers were Christians, but they were intelligent enough to know that the Bible was a good foundation to build our nation on. While remembering to grant you your fundamental right to practice any religion you want, or lack there of.
2 December 2005, on 11:34 am
Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. This theory states what? Two humans get together and by chance they might have a human baby… or maybe a rabbit. Is that the point???
Read Einsteins theories. If you can find proper punctuation through the whole thing you’ll be lucky. If punctuation is all you can throw back at me you’re scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Someone said earlier that we start with intelligence then resort to profanity. Noone has responded intelligently. Just personal attacks, ouch… I’ll get the movie. I never saw it.
2 December 2005, on 11:50 am
I suggest we ignore this moran till he goes away.
2 December 2005, on 11:57 am
To ignore this moran shows your ignorance for what you are fighting for. Please ignore me. Cause then I won’t have to respond to anymore “babel”!!! Find the routes to this word.
2 December 2005, on 12:01 pm
“Our constitution was written with Christian morals at the forefront. If it violated one of the ten commandments it didn’t get into the constitution.”
It’s againt American law to worship other gods, cheat on your wife, sleep around, say “goddamn” or “Jesus jumped-up Christ!”, work on Sunday, tell your parents to fuck off, sleep with your neighbor’s wife, or be envious of your neighbor’s possesions?
Holy Mary on a vibrator! I wish someone had told us this before since there ARE NO AMERICAN LAWS AGAINST THESE ITEMS. Furthermore, the constitution was written to protect us from religious zealotry- Doh!
Moreover, Einstein was a brilliant physicist; what’s your excuse? Accusing me of scraping the bottom of the barrel doesn’t change the fact that you’re a fool.
2 December 2005, on 12:28 pm
If it violated one of the ten commandments it didn’t get into the constitution. — Okay, Sparky, let’s test this. First commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. First Amendement: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. We got all kinds of religions in this country, and people can worship whatever they want. The first amendment trumps the first commandment.
Man, that was just too easy.
2 December 2005, on 12:38 pm
What’s your excuse. I said that if it violated the ten commandments it didn’t get into the constitution. Actually if you look hard enough there are laws against most of that stuff. It doesn’t state that they are constitutional. Let’s not get the constitution confused with our current judicial process.
2 December 2005, on 12:40 pm
Jeff – that’s why I ignore you. I tire of debunking the same bullshit over and over. We show you that this nation was not founded on the bible, you continue to say it is. You’ll probably move to evolution soon. And I’ll pull out the script for you if I feel like it. And you’ll go on with your silly Cretinist belief even when I’ve proven to you that evolution occured and is still occuring. Your base for this belief will be “I need something more”.
I’ve done it a thousand times. I’m bored with it. Like the article Bob posted says, science doesn’t need defending; it will stand on it’s own. Attacking it will only make you look even more foolish than your primitive religious beliefs have already.
That’s the great thing Jeff. Science works whether you want it to or not.
2 December 2005, on 12:48 pm
That’s right. However, your correlation makes no sense… The first amendment was established so that you could not be prosecuted or persecuted for your beliefs. In China you can be put to death if you are a Christian. Our forefathers were intelligent enough to recognize that, hence the first amendment. This states that human beings of free will should have the freedom to worship whomever they want without impinging governmental views and laws. It does not exclude the fact that the first amendment DOES NOT violate any of the ten commandments.
2 December 2005, on 12:51 pm
He just can’t get it Bob. He’s so trapped by his fundie beliefs, beliefs he could never think ain’t so, that he can’t fathom the real world.
2 December 2005, on 12:54 pm
thefinaltheory.com Please don’t tell me science can’t be disproved. Science is just theory after theory. Evolution is less than 200 years old and a theory at best. Darwin’s best arguement is on adaptations which I agree with. Evolution is a falacy. If science is right then why is it always changing?
2 December 2005, on 1:04 pm
“Atheism is a religion, a religion without a GOD. “
Lie #1
“Ninety percent of the things you live with in the American culture was based on Christianity.”
Lie #2
“Our constitution was written with Christian morals at the forefront.“
Lie #3
“If it violated one of the ten commandments it didn’t get into the constitution“
Lie #4
“Evolution is less than 200 years old and a theory at best. “
Lie #5
“Evolution is a falacy. “
Lie #6
For those interested – google this and all of Jeff’s lies are easily refuted.
“If science is right then why is it always changing? “
This is excellent proof of theistic brainwashing. Poor Jeff.
Science is based on FACT – that which can be proven, tested, repeated etc etc. As we learn more, it changes – that’s what’s great about it. Religion on the other hand, has nothing but a bunch of goofy childish mythology that no one is allowed to question.
“Science is questions that must be answered, religion are answered that must never be questioned. “ Who said that?
2 December 2005, on 1:04 pm
Sorry Evolving!!!
2 December 2005, on 1:06 pm
Darwin was born in 1809, right?
2 December 2005, on 1:08 pm
If it changes it’s not fact then is it? Fact is fact and does not change.
2 December 2005, on 1:14 pm
If you are getting your answers from thefinaltheory.com you are a moron. Seriously, the guy has the theory of everything? So instead of publishing it in peer reviewed journals he writes a book. I’m actually working on a debunking of that pathetic attempt.
Evolution is a falacy
I warned you. Here’s the script. Ready?
1. You are ignorant of what evolution is. Evolution, in layman’s terms, means a change in the gene pool of a population over time. You can see evidence of speciation by clicking this link. Now go educate yourself and come back.
2 December 2005, on 1:19 pm
Thank you. Finally someone gives me something to read about what they believe.
2 December 2005, on 1:23 pm
*sigh*
It’s not what I believe. Evolution works whether I want it to or not.
2 December 2005, on 1:54 pm
This states that human beings of free will should have the freedom to worship whomever they want without impinging governmental views and laws. It does not exclude the fact that the first amendment DOES NOT violate any of the ten commandments. — Well, my work here is done. Good luck with the bullshit and damage control, Jeff.
2 December 2005, on 2:04 pm
“If it changes it’s not fact then is it? Fact is fact and does not change. “
This is like talking to a retarded brick wall.
2 December 2005, on 2:12 pm
You said, “As we learn more it changes”, right?
2 December 2005, on 2:14 pm
Religious doctrines are always changing. “If it changes it’s not fact then is it? Fact is fact and does not change. “ There we go.
2 December 2005, on 2:19 pm
Jeff, if you have a better way of evaluating claims and learning about the universe than science, you should tell everyone.
2 December 2005, on 2:20 pm
Religious doctrines are written by humans. Each church has it’s own doctrine. The Bible does not change.
2 December 2005, on 2:24 pm
“Bible does not change.”
Which is of course yet another lie. Each time it is translated it changes.
Can someone explain in simpler terms the difference between fact and fiction? Clearly, I can’t get through.
2 December 2005, on 2:31 pm
“The Bible does not change.”
*yawn* Apocrypha *yawn* Next challenge, please.
2 December 2005, on 2:31 pm
You have to laugh… another asshole trying to shove shit down our throats… Sorry to miss so much but I’m coming right out of the gate with a FUCK YOU JEFF! Take your ancient civilization customs, shove them up the ass of all the fuckheads that are as gullible as you are and leave the rest of the world alone!
What do think you are doing …trying to help us …or “save us” as the goddam xians love to say. Well save yourself asshole! Save yourself from your own gullibility that will eventually be the end of you and every easily fooled moron like you. Go to fuckin heaven already and leave the rational people of this world alone.
Think about this asshole… they killed thousands of Jews and thought they were right too! …they thought they were right when they burned the witches too! …they thought they were right when they believed in over a hundred gods too! …they thought they were right in that the earth was flat too! …they thought they were right when they drank the coolaid too! …they thought they were right when they fell the Twin Towers too! …they thought they were right when they killed because their conscience told them to, too! This could go on for ever ….but the point is that the THEY is YOU! …and THEY/YOU won’t stop doing what the rest of us KNOW IS WRONG!
2 December 2005, on 2:32 pm
I don’t… Your stance is that we crawled out of the primordial ooze from a single celled thing (can’t use creature-create) to evolve into every living thing on earth. My stance is that it was created by GOD. Do I believe that a finch will go through various adaptations (within a species) so that it can survive on several different islands? Yes. Do I believe in evolution? No. Evolution, over simply, states that we all come from a common ancestor. Dogs, cats, fish, birds all came from that single celled thing. No matter how it is sliced evolution is more far-fetched to me than creationism is to you.
2 December 2005, on 2:33 pm
Religious doctrines are written by humans. Each church has it’s own doctrine. The Bible does not change.
If the bible was not written by humans, then who wrote it? If you’re going to say goddidit, please show where he put quill to paper and did it.
2 December 2005, on 2:39 pm
Do I believe in evolution? No.
This is what I was referring to earlier when I said And you’ll go on with your silly Cretinist belief even when I’ve proven to you that evolution occured and is still occuring.
I tried, and you put your fingers in your ears. Know what Jeff? Go fuck yourself. The more you discuss evolution, the more you prove you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Your stance is that we crawled out of the primordial ooze from a single celled thing (can’t use creature-create) to evolve into every living thing on earth.
In logic, that’s called a strawman (exaggerating one part of someone’s argument into something they never said). Thanks for playing, though.
And good call Chris. What do you expect to get out of this? That we’re going to forget all observable evidence and believe in magic for no reason because you came here to proselytize Jeff?
2 December 2005, on 2:42 pm
Welcome
2 December 2005, on 2:45 pm
Evolution, over simply, states that we all come from a common ancestor. Dogs, cats, fish, birds all came from that single celled thing.
Chimpanzees and humans have DNA which is 96% the same- if it is no small thing for a few million years to tease out a 4% change, the approximately 3.8 billion years that life has existed on Earth is not so little an amount of time to branch into various species.
2 December 2005, on 2:51 pm
Your little “think about this” ranting… was all humans. Fallable humans. I’m not sying that I’m more right than you but, I believe what I believe. I didn’t come on this to save you. It’d be nice if it happened, but that wasn’t my purpose. Kind of want to know what you believe. I’ll admit you guys have made some good (arguable) points. None of which will change my point of view. As with all debate it’s always fun when one side looses their cool and starts to get personal. I put my fingers in my ears cause I was following your lead. I’ve actually had fun with this.
2 December 2005, on 2:53 pm
Considering the earth is a scant over 6000 years old, we haven’t had enough time for all of that.
2 December 2005, on 3:01 pm
“As with all debate it’s always fun when one side looses their cool and starts to get personal.”
I haven’t lost my cool yet, so you have some more work to do.
2 December 2005, on 3:06 pm
“No matter how it is sliced evolution is more far-fetched to me than creationism is to you.”
So evolution which has mountains of evidence behind it is more far-fetched then mythology that has NO proof behind it.
Pull your head out of your ass already. You are FAR to old to still be clinging to imaginary friends.
Talkorigins.org. Go learn something and stop embarrassing yourself.
“As with all debate it’s always fun when one side looses their cool and starts to get personal. I put my fingers in my ears cause I was following your lead. I’ve actually had fun with this. “
And stop flattering yourself. We’ve heard your brand of childish bullshit a million times. You haven’t personally made anyone lose their cool- you’re a run of the mill dipshit theist. And Believe me, we enjoy how deluded and pathetic your position is.
2 December 2005, on 3:13 pm
“Considering the earth is a scant over 6000 years old…”
That’s pretty funny- so radiometrics must be total bullshit, yeah?
2 December 2005, on 3:22 pm
Marcus- I look forward to it. I don’t have internet at home so I’ll gather some ammo over the weekend and read the rest on Monday morning.
Lya- Yes I am a run of the mill theist. You should, with you infinite wisdom, be able to convince me otherwise then. There are some very intelligent people on this page, so I’ll try to keep up. All the evidence is theoretical.
2 December 2005, on 3:23 pm
Actually, it isn’t reliable.
2 December 2005, on 3:24 pm
You haven’t read the link then. Observed speciation. Look up, Jeff. The sky is blue…
2 December 2005, on 3:30 pm
Jeff:
I’m not sying that I’m more right than you but, I believe what I believe.
Stop me if I make a false assumption at any point here: you believe, as you say, what you believe. Surely you think that what you believe is right? If so, surely you have some reason for thinking that? If you don’t have any reason for thinking that what you believe is true is more right than what we consider true, why do you believe it? If you do have such reasons, then why not produce them? Address them directly to me and I will respond directly to you, for the sake of clarity amidst the general discussion.
I’ll admit you guys have made some good (arguable) points. None of which will change my point of view.
None of which will change your point of view? That seems a strange way to put it. If the points made so far have not changed your point of view, fair enough; but will implies you’re certain no argument or evidence could ever make you believe otherwise than you do now. That’s a fair bit of confidence. I’m interested to hear your grounds for such certainty.
2 December 2005, on 3:38 pm
“Actually, it isn’t reliable.”
Yeah – IN 1910. You need to stop relying on arguments that were effective nearly one hundred years ago. Radiometrics is THE ONLY RELIABLE METHOD TO DETERMINE THE AGE OF THE EARTH. Damn, Jeff, I thought you knew how to read? Pick up a modern science journal every once in a while.
2 December 2005, on 3:51 pm
There is no getting through to these people …it’s like teaching a an old dog to become Houdini!
I’m going along with the Atheist Student Organization at the University of Texas at San Antonio kids …and laugh at you fools …the THEY are YOU this time but YOU/THEY are too blind to see it Jeff.
Jeff you are the murderer, the insanity, and the problem that will be written into the history books of the future when the world wakes up and opens its eyes. You will be so embarrased and shameful of yourselves.
2 December 2005, on 3:59 pm
“All the evidence is theoretical.”
“Actually, it isn’t reliable.”
*lol* Man, you are so full of shit your eyes must be brown.
I certainly don’t want to convince you otherwise – I’m speaking about religion here, because it is absolutely irrelevant what you believe. As long as you don’t try to force it on me, believe whatever dumbass fairy tales you want.
2 December 2005, on 4:11 pm
We should start referring to Jeff as “Cocksnack”.
2 December 2005, on 4:12 pm
“I certainly don’t want to convince you otherwise – I’m speaking about religion here, because it is absolutely irrelevant what you believe. As long as you don’t try to force it on me, believe whatever dumbass fairy tales you want.”
This is an interesting statement and along lines which I have been considering. I often wonder exactly what people like Jeff or Sable Chicken think they are going to accomplish by coming to site like this. All they ever seem to say is either “well, I believe x” or “despite all of the overwhelming evidence and logical support you have provided me with, I’m still unable to change my opinion because Reverend Jimbob says otherwise on jeebusluvsme.com and even though he provides no reasoning other than reassuring platitudes, I’m going to go along with his paper thin arguments which won’t hold up under any scrutiny because they are slightly more pleasant to my preestablished world view, and besides, thinking for myself seems like too much work and the easily understood scientific concepts you’re trying to explain to me make my presence in the universe less important than if an all-powerful cosmic being had some grand plan for me that includes million of his ‘children’ starving and dying in horrible unimaginable ways, but he is still supremely good.”
2 December 2005, on 4:48 pm
None of which will change my point of view.
I didn’t catch this. That means you are a closed-minded fool Cocksnack.
Open mindedness means believing your ideas could be wrong. I’d believe your ideas if there were evidence to support them. There’s not. So there’s no reason for me to believe them.
See, we back our ideas with evidence, which you (very sloppily) attempt to tear down. See Cocksnack, even if you prove me wrong, that doesn’t increase the probability you are correct.
(and holy shit was funny King Retard – and so true.)
2 December 2005, on 6:20 pm
We should start referring to Jeff as “Cocksnack”. –
Dammit, Marcus, you owe me a fucking keyboard…
Dew through the nose! It hurts! Bastard!
2 December 2005, on 10:35 pm
Man, Sharona, this board is hoppin’. Reproductive rights always brings out the zealots.
I don’t know why I am even bothering to respond to Jeff’s perpetuation of the myth that America was founded as an xian nation. That argument is old and full of shit. But others have already covered the ground, so I can just do the old copy and paste:
America – Not a Christian Nation!
The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity:
Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short
Jefferson again:
Christianity…(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. …Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.
More Jefferson:
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves…these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Jefferson’s word for the Bible?
Dunghill.
John Adams:
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?
Also Adams:
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
Here’s Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).
Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to ‘God’ to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator’s name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).
It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins…and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.
Finally let’s hear from James Madison:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.
Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:
Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
2 December 2005, on 11:01 pm
Oh, and Jeff: I am not a hypocrite because I take xmas off each year even though I am an atheist. That is a totally empty argument. I take xmas off each year because it is one of my company’s established paid holidays. Duh.
3 December 2005, on 2:43 am
Jeff… OMFG. You are one of those evangelicals that believe the four big lies:
1) That there is such a thing as the liberal media anymore (FOX News, Rupert Murdoch, anyone?)
2) That evolution is a lie (brain damaged much?)
3) That the Earth is only a few thousand years old (radiometric dating must be an invention of the Anti-Christ)
4) The Bibble is infallible, although we have no real idea as to who, and when, actually wrote it.
Jeeeeeeez. I can’t compete with that level of denial and self- deceit. You win. Have a nice life. Turn off the light on your way out. Thanks!
3 December 2005, on 3:41 pm
I haven’t been around for several days. Looks like I missed out on quite a stir here. I haven’t read all of the comments posted on this thread yet, due to the fact that I was inspired to leave a quick response to Mr. Jeff Martin who so eloquently shared his view on abortion.
Mr. Martin, I have a feeling that you mean well, but come on brother. If you have such a high reverence for the Lord, I suggest that you take a look at yourself before you start making such harsh claims and placing such negativity on a persons decision making process.
I have much more to say regarding this issue, however I do not have the time to express all that is churning throughout my mind.
May The Truth Bless Your Soul, Mr. Martin.
3 December 2005, on 10:57 pm
Nice to have you back, Dena. Good luck with reading the comments…
4 December 2005, on 11:05 am
Dena: we need more religious folks that see things as gray as you do. Black and white has never helped the world, and won’t at all in these more complex times. Good on ya. It may take a few days to catch up on the comments, but they are well worth it. Good to see you back.
4 December 2005, on 3:04 pm
Jeff Martin said: “Everyone who wants abortion doesn’t want to be held accountable for their actions.”
My response: I disagree with this statement. I believe that I was taking responsibility for my actions by going through with this procedure.
Jeff Martin said: “You’re just lucky that a baby can just be cut out.”
My response: First of all, the fetus is not “cut-out”. Second of all, yes I am lucky that I have the option to abort an unwanted pregnancy. Let me deal with the repercussions of my actions, i.e., mentally, emotionally, spiritually.
Being that you have portrayed yourself as a spokesman for the Lord, I am surprised at your own blindness and lack of compassion for those that have chosen a different way than yourself. What happened to loving people where they are at?
I understand why many of people would look at abortion as a form of murder. I just don’t see it as such. I most certainly do not believe that I am going to be sent to the deepest depths of Hell for my choices. I find that utterly disappointing that a man of your God-like stature would make such a terrible statement. I would like to hear your thoughts regarding homo-sexuality, I’m sure that your ideas pertaining to same-sex relationships run parallel to your abortion opinions.
Words cannot express my frustration with your words Jeff. There are so many questions I have for you. Have you led a life of perfection? Have your choices always been the “right” ones? Have you ever lied, lusted over another woman, picked up a dirty magazine? Have you sworn? Have you masturbated? Have you ever gotten drunk? The list could go on and on. My point is that you are quick to shake your finger at ones decision that doesn’t fit your ideal. However, I can guarantee that you are just as guilty at making poor decisions as the next guy.
I humbly suggest that you take care of that plank in your eye before it blinds you entirely.
5 December 2005, on 10:06 am
I have come to the conclusion that Cocksnack is nothing but a flame-baiting troll, and therefore will follow Bob in not answering him.
5 December 2005, on 11:40 pm
Did anyone happen to catch the episode of Law and Order SVU last-night on USA? I never watch the show, but happened to see an interesting episode that actually centered around what the topic of this thread is.
There was a young girl that had gotten pregnant by her boyfriend, had gone into a pharmacy to purchase emergency contraception, was denied the contraception because the pharmacist said that it was against his morals.
The young girl then attempted to get ahold of an abortion clinic in New York to schedule an appointment. She was seen but was not able to schedule an appointment at the time of her visit because she was told she had a fever of 102. She was told to call back and schedule once her fever had subsided. So she did. She called everyday for two weeks, but they would not schedule her for the procedure because apparently, they were “booked”. By this time her pregnancy had lapsed over 24 weeks, which after 24 weeks a woman is not allowed to have an abortion.
Her boyfriend ended up beating her stomach until she mis-carried. This is where it got interesting. Both the girl and her boyfriend were being tried for murder of this unborn child. They ended up finding out that this abortion clinic that she had tried to be seen at, was NOT an abortion clinic. It was a fake clinic at which they would lure girls into believing that they would be able to schedule an appointment, however they would delay the date of the procedure so that it would lapse over the 24 weeks! The young girls boyfriend was charged on some sort of misdemeanor, but was found NOT-GUILTY for the miscarriage of the unborn baby. The doctor of this phony abortion clinic was arrested for false something or rather, I can’t think of the word right now; but he was arrested. The last words out of this doctors mouth was: “Why are you arresting me? I was only trying to save innocent lives that couldn’t save themselves! I’ve done nothing wrong!!”
Sorry for the long drawn-out play by play, but I thought it was such a coincidence that you guys had just posted this thread. This episode was certainly an interesting and controversial one to say the least.
6 December 2005, on 12:55 am
Hey, Dena. Wow… I never — and I mean never — watch TV, and had never seen that show before, but I actually caught that episode a couple of weeks ago. I guess what you saw was a re-run. I was stunned at how daring the concept was, and how far they followed through on it. Apparently these sham abortion clinics actually exist.
I really haven’t watched a dramatic TV show in years (the only thing I ever see is the Daily Show), but I came in on the second half of this and watched it to the very end. Interesting you brought it up.